subsonic cast bullet loads

[farright]

I really did try to find the answer to my question but got confused reading 45 pages of data.
I have 4 different cast bullets lubed and ready to load but really would like to know sub sonic load for each. I read a lot but much of the data is a guess if it is sub or super. I don't think it makes a lot of difference what bullet it is as long as the weight range is correct but will list them anyway.
My rifle is a cz 527 300 blk out. so far i have only taken it out twice first with jacketed bullets to help remove any tool marks. and then last week with cast bullets. so far i am getting groups at 100 yards of less than 2 inches with cast, but i have used a hodgepodge of powders including those listed and i forgot i also have some herco and unique. it is my goal to shoot mostly sub sonic and bullets of around 180-200 gr. the rcbs 180 sp has shot best at 1.5 inches. and i know that is nothing to write home about.
Eagan mx3 30x 200 gr.
saeco #301 190 gr.
Lyman 311440 150 gr.
noe 165gr. fp

i have the following powders i can use
1680
296
aa 9 imr 4227
4198
2400
sr. 4759
somewhere someone should have a starting load for each bullet with at least one powder.
i will shoot and chronograph them and report back to the group my results,( it might take a couple weeks and i will shoot the first test at 50 yards.
I would like to thank the group in advance

[dellet]

44 or 44 1/2?

[dellet]

Probably the easiest of the powders to work with will be 1680 and 4227. Both of those you will be able to run the low to high range of velocity.

Will you be shooting suppressed or does sub or super matter?

[farright]

I want to shoot subsonic to begin with and I don't have a suppressor yet but want one down the road. could you give me a starting load that would be sub sonic? and as I have several powders I don't care which one. there are loads sub sonic for jacketed bullets but usually cast bullets are a bit faster because the offer less resistance moving down the barrel. That is my experience in shooting cast bullets for almost 50 years. I must say the more I read and handle the blk out the more I like it.
joe

ps. I don't understand the question 44 or 44 1/2? I must have missed something.

[dellet]

You're rifle looks more like a Stevens than a Winchester, so the question was is it model 44 or 44 1/2. Probably neither since It didn't click.

If you use jacketed data for a bullet about 20 grains lighter you'll be close

1680 and 4227 you can probably start around 10 grains with any of those bullets and work the load either way. Both of those will also work well if you want to go up to a maximun load in the mid to high teens depending on bullet weight.

296, #9, and 2400 will be more in the 7 grain and less range. Case fill will be low. Example I run 7.9 #9 with a 190 jacketed in an 8" barrel for 1000fps and is in the mid 50% density.

4198 and 4759 you might be the test pilot for. There are likely some loads for 4198, don't think I have heard of anyone trying 4759. But it's only been the last couple years that non AR rifles have started to catch on.


Here's a better search feature for you.
https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx ... tl9hapdoi0

[farright]

it didn't click it is a stevens m-44 in 32-40 I also have another in 25-20 wcf. i really got into single shot rifles and am just taking a while off to shoot the 300 blk out. a couple years ago i received a CPA copy of the stevens 441/2 also in 32-40. if you are interested i will list in a PM so as not to not go off topic.
and thanks for the load data i am going to get them loaded probably wont make it to the range until mid week i think i will try a few with 4759.
joe

[dellet]

it didn't click it is a stevens m-44 in 32-40 I also have another in 25-20 wcf. i really got into single shot rifles and am just taking a while off to shoot the 300 blk out. a couple years ago i received a CPA copy of the stevens 441/2 also in 32-40. if you are interested i will list in a PM so as not to not go off topic.
and thanks for the load data i am going to get them loaded probably wont make it to the range until mid week i think i will try a few with 4759.
joe

32-40 data is a little bit of a stretch due to capacity, 32-20 is very close to Blackout data. I have used it as a starting load before.
If I remember right the load was 30-24-125, that I ran in my AR. Worked fine, but was a bugger to clean

I've actually been considering a CPA, but want a more modern cartridge. Wimped out and bought a newer 1885. Will likely re-barrel it in something based an a 444 Marlin. Barrel changes would probably be easier with the CPA, but action strength might be an issue.

There is always the possibility of necking a 222 up or a 357 max down for a rimmed Blackout. Then need to form 1 build a Maxim style suppressor and watch the heads turn.

The cartridge actually really is a very good choice for a single shot or bolt action if you reload. If you can find a 308 bullet, there's a way to make it go.

[farright]

I was getting confused ( that is easy for me to do ) on the loading data I was reading with cast bullets. I decided to run a few tests just to see if there were any signs of high pressure. I have been loading and casting bullets for almost 50 years. I had some Eagan mx3 30 R bullets lubed and sized right at 200 gr. so decided to start with them. again I have no idea if they will group or if sub or super sonic. I was just making sure they shot high pressure. first I loaded a few with 10 gr. of 296 seated the bullet at 2.123 oal. I have a large stump I'm my garage and shot them into it all seemed good no primer flattening or case expansion. next I loaded the same bullet with 9.8 gr of sr 4759 with an oal of 2.221 again pressure was in the safe level.
now again I am shooting for sub sonic loads and have no idea if these are what I am after or not. next I am going to test 4227 4198 and several other powders then I will load and head to the range to shoot groups and check velocity. I have more than 20 30 caliber moulds and am sure I can find at least one that will group less than an inch at 100 yards.

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I'll assume you also have "pistol" powders. And because you are not worried about cycling, because you are shooting a single shot, I would try some faster powders. They are also quieter than traditional loads, with or without a silencer.

[dellet]

Generally speaking you won't run into pressure problems with subs until you get into fast powders. A lot of times load data for heavy bullets assumes a sub sonic load and the max load data is based on 1100 fps, not pressure. Hornady is pretty good at listing max pressure. Min loads start at 1200 fps.

195 bthp max loads,

1680 17.9 grns 1650 fps.
5744 14.2 grns 1400 fps
4227 13.9 grns 1500 fps
296 13.4 grns 1500 fps
#9. 10.7 grns 1400 fps
2400 11.0 grns 1400 fps.

For what it's worth, min load for 296 9.7 grns 1200 fps.

Gives you some idea of some max pressures.

Old load data from Sierra, note the test rifle is a 10" contender for velocity, it's one of the few that shows heavy bullet supers.
http://up.sur-la-toile.com/iFsk