New 247 gr HP Help

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Oldphart
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New 247 gr HP Help

Post by Oldphart »

Man do I have problems with this mold.
1st cannot get good bullets unless the bullet is frosted, have never had problems like this; been casting 40 years

2nd after casting driving bands are .312 and bore riding portion is 300 - happy with that but there are feathers around the HP portion of the bullet

3rdafter powder coating, shake and bake, the driving band is .318 - .320 and the bore riding portion is .308 - .310 I know this is not good, but I'm new to powder coating and can't believe I'm getting such a thick coating!

I've tried to sizing the bullets, in several steps, before coating but all the sizing I'm doing is distorting the HP. And no trying to get an OAL that will fit in the chamber is useless, because the bore riding portion is way too big.
Oh, and I see I'm going to need to polish the feed ramps. Going from the magazine to the chamber is not working...but I can fix that. :roll:

Thanks for any help, thoughts regarding my casting problems and powder coating problems would be very helpful

Phil
xdmalder
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by xdmalder »

I can help with some things. It's not a bore rider. It's just the front driving band. I'm sizing with a NOE sizer so I'm pushing the bullets base first into my sizer that would probably help. This mold has to be run hot. Other wise you will not get good fill. I'm bottom pouring with good results but if that isn't working I would start do a pressure pour. It's slower but you will get good fill out. Just make sure you use a fast cadence with the aluminum molds with the hollow points. Otherwise they cool fast. Also when I get my molds I clean them like he says and it helps tremendously. Boil them if dish soap and water. After I started doing that I don't even need to smoke the molds anymore
Oldphart
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by Oldphart »

Thank you. Helps knowing about running the mould hot, just don't like the frosting!

Now, if I can bet a thinner powder coating I'll be in business.

Any help on COAL of this bullet would help too?

Thanks for the help,

Phil
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bangbangping
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by bangbangping »

I've never had trouble with fillout with this mold. Cleanliness and making sure the pins are hot should help.

As for the flashing around the HP, yep. Mine, too. Pressure casting will make it worse. Making sure you close the mold when upside down seems to help. If it's bad enough, have someone true the holes and make new pins that fit better.

As for powder coating, I pretty much suck at the shake-n-bake method. It's easy to get it too thick or uneven. What works for me (if I do it that way) is to only put a tiny bit of powder in the container. If it doesn't look like enough after shaking, add a tiny bit more. Starting with a bunch of power and attempting to shake off the excess never worked so well for me. For hollow points, I welded a bunch of nails point up on a tray. Stick the bullets on the nails and spray. Yes, it's extra equipment and time, but easy ensure a perfect coat.

As for COAL, somewhere around 2.1" should work. I'm using 2.105" for my bolt action, and it's just a little snug.
Boolit_Head
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by Boolit_Head »

That is one reason I like the brass molds in HP molds. The brass and pins seem to like to be ar similar temperature. The Aluminum blocks like being cooler than the pins.
45r
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by 45r »

You might want to try using a vibratory tumbler with the black PB pellets for around 3 to 5 minutes and dump into a colander with holes big enough to let the pellets shake through.
I drilled holes on a metal one.
Once the bullets are in the colander shake them round and round to remove excess powder and then bounce them up and down a couple times.
I dump them on a 1/4 inch chicken wire square basket to cook in oven.
The coat is even and not too thick.
1 coat is enough with PBTP.
I use emerald green and only get around 1 thou thicker than bare bullets.
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GunFunZS
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by GunFunZS »

nothing wrong with frosted bullets. They shoot just as well, and are less prone to intermittent poor fillout. Higher temps just make your alloy less viscous and more prone to flow into mold detail.

That's a good thing. Frost is irrelevant, and maybe even helps your coatings stick.
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GunFunZS
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by GunFunZS »

As for powder coating, I made one of the older videos on the topic, if not the first. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... WuEo7pgz8w

Start with good powder. I suggest this https://www.powderbuythepound.com/ral_5 ... _blue.html

The bullets need to be free of oils and very dry. Moisture is the enemy of static electricity.

Tumble in your vibe tumbler until the coating is uniform. If it is patchy, too thin, or too thick, just give it more time. Once the moisture is gone, and the static builds up, the coating will even out.

Dump from the tumbler into a sifter, a couple quick shakes to knock off any loose powder then pour onto your rack and bake. DO NOT Stand Them UP ON BASES. 1) this fingerprints each round, or at least tweezer marks them. you just added inconsistency 2) It means any contact marks will be on the base. you just added inconsistency on the base. 3) It wastes a ton of time to add inconsistency. In short it might make you feel like you are making more quality, but you are actually making lower quality.

One thin coat of a PE which has the surface tension to flow into a thin uniform layer. (i.e. not that lumpy harbor freight garbage. Save that for tools.). One tolerance. Additional layers are additional chances for stacked errors.

No stacking on trays or extra crap like that. it wastes time and puts any flaws right on the base where they are most critical. More work does not equal a better product. Knock them off the tray while hot and you won't have a significant number of bullets marking eachother. Just pour them on your rack and bake.

I use a wooden wedge to knock them off of the rack and de clump while still hot. It's rare that I find a rack mark. I also like to size rifle bullets while still warm. They glide through the push sizer.
Oldphart
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by Oldphart »

bangbangping wrote:I've never had trouble with fillout with this mold. Cleanliness and making sure the pins are hot should help.

As for the flashing around the HP, yep. Mine, too. Pressure casting will make it worse. Making sure you close the mold when upside down seems to help. If it's bad enough, have someone true the holes and make new pins that fit better.

As for powder coating, I pretty much suck at the shake-n-bake method. It's easy to get it too thick or uneven. What works for me (if I do it that way) is to only put a tiny bit of powder in the container. If it doesn't look like enough after shaking, add a tiny bit more. Starting with a bunch of power and attempting to shake off the excess never worked so well for me. For hollow points, I welded a bunch of nails point up on a tray. Stick the bullets on the nails and spray. Yes, it's extra equipment and time, but easy ensure a perfect coat.

As for COAL, somewhere around 2.1" should work. I'm using 2.105" for my bolt action, and it's just a little snug.
Thanks!! The bullets have been filling out nicely as long as the mold is "frosting hot" And the bullets come out of the mold with a couple of whacks from my rawhide hammer.
As for the powder coating, I could be putting way to much powder in the tub. Per your suggestion I will cut way back on the amount of powder I'm putting in there. If that doesn't work, I may try the spraying method?

I use a cookie tray with 8/32 screws, 117, screwed thru the tray. Coat them and pick them up by the base and put them on the screws. I have no prints from picking them up..But the coating is .005 to .007 thick. Thats my problem now!

bangbangping, GunFunZS, 45r and Bollit_Head thank you for the information & help. You have given my lots of ideas, now I've got to try all your recommendations.

This blog is great, thanks to all of you for making this the great place it is, this old man appreciates all of you,

Phil
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GunFunZS
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Re: New 247 gr HP Help

Post by GunFunZS »

I know I am just a guy on the internet, but it sounds like you are doing all the wrong things, way too much work, and getting the bad results that should come from that.

I beg you to stop standing up bullets, hand tumbling thick coats, etc. I know it feels like more effort should equal more quality, but machine consistency and fewest steps actually equals the smallest deviation from bullet to bullet.


Ditch the coolwhip tub and use a vibratory tumbler. This will make your life a lot easier.

What you listed is WAY too thick. No wonder so many people post inaccuracy problems with powder coat. That lead core of your thick plastic bullet can be way off axis and off center with what you are posting.
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