Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Moderators: gds, bakerjw, Dolomite_Supafly

threehundred
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:14 pm

Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by threehundred »

Looking for help from casters using the "Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold TL309-230-5R 30 Caliber (309 Diameter) 230 Grain 300 AAC Blackout Tumble Lube 5 Ogive Radius".

I am seriously considering getting back into casting, rather than buying, and just ordered one of these, but, I have reservations on the ".309" diameter spec.

It has been many decades since I have cast my own, things have certainly evolved since then.
What I remember from my learning curve in the past, was, I liked my castings of pure lead, 2 to 3 thousandths over bore to minimize leading, actually that size eliminated leading for me. Today, I have many factory bought lead bullets, in four different calibers, all oversized as stated and all leaving no lead in my barrels.

My query is, after visually (not slugged) inspecting my 300 BLK bore, it has very shallow groves, or, very short lands, which ever way one wishes to explain it. 8)

The Lee mold I just ordered states a diameter of .309, that, to me, just doesn't fit with what I remember from years ago, so, I thought I need updating from present day casters and possible save mr from slugging my barrel.

First question, does anyone know the preferred "over size" for lead bullets in a shallow rifling 300 BLK barrel?

Second, Lee sells a "Lube and size kit" in .311,... can anyone confer this tool can increase the mold size of .309 to .311? Or is that die for bullets cast over .311? (they are closed today)

And third, does anyone have a good source for pure lead?

thanks
xdmalder
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by xdmalder »

Marlin Microgroove rifling is very shallow (probably the most shallow out of all rifling). It shoots just fine at 0.002" over. Usually 1-2 thousandths is good for sizing.

There really isn't a best size. All barrels should be slugged. Manufacturers have tolerances and as they rifle their barrels the tools are worn down. So internal dimensions change as the tooling wears until tolerance is out of spec. Also it is better to size to the throat rather than the barrel.

The LEE sizes are for sizing down not bumping up. You can beagle your mold to bump up size. As far as sizes go NOE sizes are much better than LEE.

Easiest place to find pure lead without scrounging for it would be rotometals or the forum castboolits.gunloads.com.
popper
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:09 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by popper »

Most likely pure won't work. Get it at Rotometal. Range scrap, WW, isocore or get pure and superhard to add a touch of Sb. You will need harder alloy for AR. 2 of mine run good at 309, one at 310. Size to throat, not bore, it's always larger than bore. Pure will size at whatever the actual sizer is, Pb/Sn the same. Sb will make it a tad larger. You could possible S&B PC to get up to size. BLL is MUCH better than LLA for lube.
User avatar
bangbangping
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:34 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by bangbangping »

To expand on what xmander said...
.309 may not be large enough. Personally I like .310-.311 in the BLK with the alloy I use. But you won't know what yours likes 'til you try.

Cast a few and see what they measure with your alloy. If less than .309, add some pieces of aluminum tape to the inside of the mold ("beagling", after a guy named beagle who popularized it) to bring it up.

Get a Lee .309 sizer. You can always polish the interior to increase the diameter if necessary.

Shoot 'em and see what it likes.
xdmalder
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by xdmalder »

Bll is awesome lube. I've had just that lube up to 2400 fps without leading! I've read people have had it to 2900 fps
threehundred
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:14 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by threehundred »

bangbangping wrote:To expand on what xmander said...
.309 may not be large enough. Personally I like .310-.311 in the BLK with the alloy I use. But you won't know what yours likes 'til you try.

Cast a few and see what they measure with your alloy. If less than .309, add some pieces of aluminum tape to the inside of the mold ("beagling", after a guy named beagle who popularized it) to bring it up.

Get a Lee .309 sizer. You can always polish the interior to increase the diameter if necessary.

Shoot 'em and see what it likes.

I remember the term "beagling", been around a long time! 8)
How much of an increase do you think it can be bumped by just polishing?
If I can bump up the diameter by polishing, why not just get a Lee .311 sizer?
Or is that too much of a bump?
If not too much of a bump, would a .309 diameter Lee mold bullet be too small
to bump up to .311 with the Lee sizer and pure lead? i know this is all speculation,
but I appreciate opinions here, speculation or not!
threehundred
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:14 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by threehundred »

xdmalder wrote:Marlin Microgroove rifling is very shallow (probably the most shallow out of all rifling). It shoots just fine at 0.002" over. Usually 1-2 thousandths is good for sizing.

There really isn't a best size. All barrels should be slugged. Manufacturers have tolerances and as they rifle their barrels the tools are worn down. So internal dimensions change as the tooling wears until tolerance is out of spec. Also it is better to size to the throat rather than the barrel.

The LEE sizes are for sizing down not bumping up. You can beagle your mold to bump up size. As far as sizes go NOE sizes are much better than LEE.

Easiest place to find pure lead without scrounging for it would be rotometals or the forum castboolits.gunloads.com.

Your correct about "micro groove", I load factory lead in my Marlin444 at 3 thousandths over.

Surprisingly, I don't see more than a thousandth or two difference in the lands height of my 300BLK compared to the Marlin micro groove flats. But, like I said, I haven't slugged it. With popular opinion being to match bullet diameter with the chamber "throat", slugging just the throat is a walk in the park, compared to slugging the length of the entire barrel.
xdmalder
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by xdmalder »

threehundred wrote:
xdmalder wrote:Marlin Microgroove rifling is very shallow (probably the most shallow out of all rifling). It shoots just fine at 0.002" over. Usually 1-2 thousandths is good for sizing.

There really isn't a best size. All barrels should be slugged. Manufacturers have tolerances and as they rifle their barrels the tools are worn down. So internal dimensions change as the tooling wears until tolerance is out of spec. Also it is better to size to the throat rather than the barrel.

The LEE sizes are for sizing down not bumping up. You can beagle your mold to bump up size. As far as sizes go NOE sizes are much better than LEE.

Easiest place to find pure lead without scrounging for it would be rotometals or the forum castboolits.gunloads.com.

Your correct about "micro groove", I load factory lead in my Marlin444 at 3 thousandths over.

Surprisingly, I don't see more than a thousandth or two difference in the lands height of my 300BLK compared to the Marlin micro groove flats. But, like I said, I haven't slugged it. With popular opinion being to match bullet diameter with the chamber "throat", slugging just the throat is a walk in the park, compared to slugging the length of the entire barrel.
Slugging the barrel won't give the best fit but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It would tell you if there are "loose" spots in the barrel. It might save you from a lot of testing and not figuring out why you can't get the barrel to shoot or why it's leading.
threehundred
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:14 pm

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by threehundred »

xdmalder wrote:
Slugging the barrel won't give the best fit but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It would tell you if there are "loose" spots in the barrel. It might save you from a lot of testing and not figuring out why you can't get the barrel to shoot or why it's leading.[/quote]

............................................................................................................................


Slugging has always been definitive in the past, for me. My 300 BLK barrel has no problems
holding nice tight groups, actually, the barrel is one of nicer surprises since getting into 300BLK.
I have never, never, had a barrel lead on me with properly oversized pure lead bullets.

But, thanks for the thoughts.
User avatar
bangbangping
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:34 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast

Re: Can anyone save me some time/steps?

Post by bangbangping »

threehundred wrote:I remember the term "beagling", been around a long time! 8)
How much of an increase do you think it can be bumped by just polishing?
If I can bump up the diameter by polishing, why not just get a Lee .311 sizer?
OK, never know what someone knows or doesn't. :mrgreen:

IMO, the LEE sizers benefit from polishing regardless, so I like to start small. You can easily go to .311 from .309. Start with 400 or 600 grit and go up as high as you want.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests