Eform 1 denial

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gds
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Eform 1 denial

Post by gds »

It appears the ATF has issued a blanket denial across the board for Eform 1 silencers. I had 2 denied for the same reason that makes no sense. everyone is getting this same reason.

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oldgeek
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by oldgeek »

Greetings, I am new here and new to the ATF/NFA crap. However I recently saw an article about recent changes in the law defining suppressors. Apparently things that can be made into suppressors must now comply with the registration, tax and transfer provisions of the NFA. Recently an online store selling solvent traps was raided by the ATF for selling what is now considered a suppressor as defined by law. The stores customer database was also seized. Using info from the stores customer data base the ATF sent letters to the stores customers notifying them they were in possession of a suppressor that does not comply with the registration, tax and transfer provisions of the NFA. They were also told it is a felony to be in possession of such a device.

I do not know what an "Eform 1" is, but I suspect it is for registering a home made suppressor?
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Omega
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by Omega »

oldgeek wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:58 am Greetings, I am new here and new to the ATF/NFA crap. However I recently saw an article about recent changes in the law defining suppressors. Apparently things that can be made into suppressors must now comply with the registration, tax and transfer provisions of the NFA. Recently an online store selling solvent traps was raided by the ATF for selling what is now considered a suppressor as defined by law. The stores customer database was also seized. Using info from the stores customer data base the ATF sent letters to the stores customers notifying them they were in possession of a suppressor that does not comply with the registration, tax and transfer provisions of the NFA. They were also told it is a felony to be in possession of such a device.

I do not know what an "Eform 1" is, but I suspect it is for registering a home made suppressor?
No, it is a form requesting a stamp for a suppressor that has not been made yet. So what I am hearing is that now, a steel or aluminum tube or flashlight body is now considered a silencer, and much of the US is in violation. They are full of bull excrement, they, again, are trying to write law and need to be called out for it.
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gds
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by gds »

oldgeek wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:58 am Greetings, I am new here and new to the ATF/NFA crap. However I recently saw an article about recent changes in the law defining suppressors. Apparently things that can be made into suppressors must now comply with the registration, tax and transfer provisions of the NFA. Recently an online store selling solvent traps was raided by the ATF for selling what is now considered a suppressor as defined by law. The stores customer database was also seized. Using info from the stores customer data base the ATF sent letters to the stores customers notifying them they were in possession of a suppressor that does not comply with the registration, tax and transfer provisions of the NFA. They were also told it is a felony to be in possession of such a device.

I do not know what an "Eform 1" is, but I suspect it is for registering a home made suppressor?
An E form 1 is an eleteonic form1 rather than a paper form 1 in order to make a suppressor. I am aware of the Diversified Machine debacle. However I have not purchased feom them, ever. I will be purchasing stock to make my own on my lathe.

This is an overstep by an out of control government agency and an out of control government.
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by bangbangping »

Perhaps you should say you're going to start with a pile of bauxite. You'd at least have a good story when it got denied.
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gds
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by gds »

bangbangping wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:07 pm Perhaps you should say you're going to start with a pile of bauxite. You'd at least have a good story when it got denied.
I was thinking I could go mine the iron ore. If I had the first clue how to. :lol:
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by plant.one »

there was just a letter from the american suppressor association about this.

looks like the BATFE went thru and bulk denied a giant pile of these. seems to be coming on the wake of the diversified machine stuff a little over a year ago.

head over to prince law blog re: that whole thing. guess a bunch of their clients got nastygrams from the batfe re things they ordered and at the very least they're trying to figure out who actually registered their stuff on a form 1 and who didnt. but too early to tell from what they said the other day.


so its starting to look like, at least for the short term, unless you have a lathe or privately owned CNC in your garage, form1 suppressors arent going to be a thing at all.

next thing you know it'll be illegal to buy a 2D maglight
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by dellet »

I wonder how many people put on their application that they would be buying a kit from "Convertthistoasilencerdotcom"?
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gds
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by gds »

dellet wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 7:59 pm I wonder how many people put on their application that they would be buying a kit from "Convertthistoasilencerdotcom"?
That is part of the problem. Currently there is no place to put anything of that nature on the Form 1. All you have to identify is length and caliber.

Supposedly the atf has put out new guidance, which is above and beyond any legislative requirement. But it is the atf so the law is only a suggestion at best for them.
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Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by GSO »

It seems a bit more clear (at least to me) now that ATF final rule 2021R-05F, Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms has been published on 11 April 2022. Reading through it (no small task....okay, maybe skimming instead of reading), it appears that the intent is for the parts (in the case of suppressors, the tube) that can be "readily made into a firearm" are treated as a firearm and serialized. For 80% receivers, this would be the receiver itself. For suppressors, the tube that holds the baffles is considered the critical part as described in the new rule. As pointed out, there are lots of tubes that "could" be made into a silencer, but not without baffles. If a tube were specifically sized to take a certain set of baffles (perhaps as a kit), then the tube would be a "silencer" when purchased. In this case, I would think it could then be Form 4'ed instead of Form 1'ed. It seems like an attempt to make things more "clear" when differentiating between manufacturing and purchasing, but oftentimes regulations or legislation has the opposite affect of the intent. Speaking of intent, I think that is important for the ATF in deciding if a piece of pipe or metal tube 'is' or 'is not' a silencer. If a baffle stack is in proximity (or if you have an oil filter with a hole in it and a solvent trap threaded insert), then it is reasonable to assume intent. In either case, it appears that the thinking is that one is not making (or manufacturing" a firearm/silencer, you are purchasing it and the Form 4 would be the correct/legal way to do it. However, this would force the seller to become an SOT which would certainly impact availability.

Please note: I am not saying that I agree or disagree with any of this. It is my attempt to explain what I see as the handwriting on the wall. I could be wildly wrong in my speculation.
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