Eform 1 denial

Moderators:gds, bakerjw, renegade

User avatar
gds
Silent But Deadly
Posts:3690
Joined:Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:43 am
Location:Sandhills of North Carolina
Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by gds » Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:17 pm

GSO wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:30 pm
It seems a bit more clear (at least to me) now that ATF final rule 2021R-05F, Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms has been published on 11 April 2022. Reading through it (no small task....okay, maybe skimming instead of reading), it appears that the intent is for the parts (in the case of suppressors, the tube) that can be "readily made into a firearm" are treated as a firearm and serialized. For 80% receivers, this would be the receiver itself. For suppressors, the tube that holds the baffles is considered the critical part as described in the new rule. As pointed out, there are lots of tubes that "could" be made into a silencer, but not without baffles. If a tube were specifically sized to take a certain set of baffles (perhaps as a kit), then the tube would be a "silencer" when purchased. In this case, I would think it could then be Form 4'ed instead of Form 1'ed. It seems like an attempt to make things more "clear" when differentiating between manufacturing and purchasing, but oftentimes regulations or legislation has the opposite affect of the intent. Speaking of intent, I think that is important for the ATF in deciding if a piece of pipe or metal tube 'is' or 'is not' a silencer. If a baffle stack is in proximity (or if you have an oil filter with a hole in it and a solvent trap threaded insert), then it is reasonable to assume intent. In either case, it appears that the thinking is that one is not making (or manufacturing" a firearm/silencer, you are purchasing it and the Form 4 would be the correct/legal way to do it. However, this would force the seller to become an SOT which would certainly impact availability.

Please note: I am not saying that I agree or disagree with any of this. It is my attempt to explain what I see as the handwriting on the wall. I could be wildly wrong in my speculation.
You may be correct. However I won't say any of it is even remotely "clear". Especially since I have sent multiple emails to a new dedicated form1 silencer specific ATF email address. With the responses to be completely lacking in anything even close to an answer to my questions or an explanation on how to not be denied upon another attempt at filing form 1s again.

I will find out eventually, since I tried again and answered the new questions now asked while filing the form 1.

The whole process and interpretation the ATF has decided on is ignorant and stupid. Shows a complete lack of anything even remotely close to common sense.
Yes, I am a Baptist, and yes I carry a gun. You might think I carry a gun because I don't trust God. Well you would be wrong. I have complete faith in my Lord. It is mankind I have no trust in

BulletFlight for Android
User avatar
GSO
Silent But Deadly
Posts:301
Joined:Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:55 am
Location:Central Texas

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by GSO » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:37 am

gds wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:17 pm

You may be correct. However I won't say any of it is even remotely "clear". Especially since I have sent multiple emails to a new dedicated form1 silencer specific ATF email address. With the responses to be completely lacking in anything even close to an answer to my questions or an explanation on how to not be denied upon another attempt at filing form 1s again.

I will find out eventually, since I tried again and answered the new questions now asked while filing the form 1.

The whole process and interpretation the ATF has decided on is ignorant and stupid. Shows a complete lack of anything even remotely close to common sense.
1. I did say that effect is often opposite of intent (make things clear). Every update to Form 4473 for transfer of firearms (GCA or NFA) includes re-whickering of the questions about status as a "resident alien." (The one that you leave blank if you answer "no" to the previous question. Every revision makes some parts of the questions more clear but other parts miss the mark and people still struggle to not check the "no" box if it is "N/A." (there used to be an "n/a" box)

2. Common sense really isn't that common these days.

EDIT: I should also commend you for the courage to Form 1 a silencer/sound suppressor. I suppose I could do such with a kit, but otherwise don't have the equipment or skills. I have done a number of Form 1 SBR's, but with the AR platform, it's really gun "plumbing" as opposed to smithing. I can also stick, MIG, and flux-core weld, but certainly can't handle the machining necessary to fabricate a silencer.
I don't collect firearms; they just accumulate...

"Be Prepared" - My motto from an early age.

Greg

User avatar
rebel
Silent But Deadly
Posts:7283
Joined:Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 pm
Location:Moonshine Country

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by rebel » Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:25 pm

The ATF was designed to enforce the law not create the law. That is the Congress's job. We are just screwed right now and will be on multiple levels for a while. Best just do your thing and stay under the radar. None of their damn business anyway.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.

BigBadBrad
New Member
Posts:2
Joined:Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:01 pm

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by BigBadBrad » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:22 pm

YESSS!!! What he said 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻!! So PLEASE STOP contacting them about a ridiculous subject that all of us (and many of them ironically) are sick of!!

User avatar
plant.one
Silent But Deadly
Posts:6816
Joined:Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:31 pm
Location:Oakland County, MI

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by plant.one » Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:39 pm

rebel wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:25 pm
The ATF was designed to enforce the law not create the law. That is the Congress's job. We are just screwed right now and will be on multiple levels for a while. Best just do your thing and stay under the radar. None of their damn business anyway.
the EPA ruling today may put a big of a hitch in that giddyup.
"Capping carbon dioxide emissions at a level that will force a nationwide transition away from the use of coal to generate electricity may be a sensible 'solution to the crisis of the day.' But it is not plausible that Congress gave EPA the authority to adopt on its own such a regulatory scheme," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. "A decision of such magnitude and consequence rests with Congress itself, or an agency acting pursuant to a clear delegation from that representative body," Roberts said.
the potential for this to be much broader and used to challenge things like these BATFE rulings we've been fighting for a while now may well within the realm of plausible.
Reloading info shared is based on experiences w/ my guns. Be safe and work up your loads from published data. Web data may not be accurate/safe.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.

BigBadBrad
New Member
Posts:2
Joined:Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:01 pm

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by BigBadBrad » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:04 pm

the potential for this to be much broader and used to challenge things like these BATFE rulings we've been fighting for a while now may well within the realm of plausible.
[/quote]

Not as long as Congress doesn’t do something so monumentally stupid Like delegating any legislative authority to an executive agency. Which I don’t believe they’ve ever done or would ever likely do considering by doing so would effectively be putting themselves out of a job.

User avatar
rebel
Silent But Deadly
Posts:7283
Joined:Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 pm
Location:Moonshine Country

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by rebel » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:04 pm

Plant , as I said, none of there business. I think you know what that implies. Carry on my wayward son.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.

User avatar
rebel
Silent But Deadly
Posts:7283
Joined:Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 pm
Location:Moonshine Country

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by rebel » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:10 pm

BigBadBrad wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:04 pm
the potential for this to be much broader and used to challenge things like these BATFE rulings we've been fighting for a while now may well within the realm of plausible.
Not as long as Congress doesn’t do something so monumentally stupid Like delegating any legislative authority to an executive agency. Which I don’t believe they’ve ever done or would ever likely do considering by doing so would effectively be putting themselves out of a job.
[/quote]
Congress doing something monumentally stupid.....hmmm - they have done it. The ATF makes law and they are fine with that. Thank God for Clarence Thomas. Binary triggers? Pistol braces? Frames and Receivers? Trust me, they dictate the law of the land until the court slaps their pee-pee.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.

User avatar
bangbangping
Silent But Deadly
Posts:2668
Joined:Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:34 pm
Location:Texas Gulf Coast

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by bangbangping » Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:05 pm

gds wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:17 pm
I will find out eventually, since I tried again and answered the new questions now asked while filing the form 1.
Any news?

User avatar
gds
Silent But Deadly
Posts:3690
Joined:Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:43 am
Location:Sandhills of North Carolina

Re: Eform 1 denial

Post by gds » Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:27 pm

bangbangping wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:05 pm
gds wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:17 pm
I will find out eventually, since I tried again and answered the new questions now asked while filing the form 1.
Any news?
My apologies I thought I had updated this. I did resubmit and I forget the exaxt time, but it was about a month and a half, but did recieve both as aproved.
Yes, I am a Baptist, and yes I carry a gun. You might think I carry a gun because I don't trust God. Well you would be wrong. I have complete faith in my Lord. It is mankind I have no trust in

Post Reply