I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

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Jarem08
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I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by Jarem08 »

I know this is a site dedicated to 300 Blackout and I also know this is general talk. My idea is geared for Gunsmiths in general.

I was at my LGS today and the idea came to my head of making a new twist on an old classic. I love the 300 Win Mag round. It is a fantastic round. However, I am using a Savage bolt action.

I love the M1 Garand. I love the history, the look the weight the feel.

My thought then is to combine both. I know it would be easier for me to just get a 30.06 and call it a day but I am in really deep to my WM and to change over will be a complete loss and hit.

It is possible to do these adaptations as I have seen a round that is close to the same specs.

McCann Industries made the 458 WIN MAG and if it can be done for that round it can be done for something a little smaller.

I am assuming that the information from the Hornady's reloading 9th edition can supply all that is needed to build the chamber and rebarrel the gun.

Info from Hornady:

300

Diameter - 308
Max Case length- 2.620
Max COL: 3.340
Case trim: 2.610

458

Diameter- .458
Max COL: 3.340
Max case length: 2.500
Case trim: 2.490.

As seen, the case length overall is the same. It could be adaptable.

Here is my question then: Has anyone seen anything like this or have known anyone who has done this? I have been in touch with a local gunsmith that is near my LGS and he is very intrigued by this as well. If we cannot get info, we may try to branch out on our own and see what we can do. Any help, advice or even numbers for me to pass on that can help would be great!
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bangbangping
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by bangbangping »

I'm confused. Are you wanting to convert a Garand to 458?

Edit: I think I have it...M1 Garand in 300 WM. Interesting.

My first thought is how do you feed it?
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Flatliner
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by Flatliner »

There is no engineering or manufacturing problem that can't be solved with enough money and time. I am assuming you are talking about a 300 WM Garand. My first thought would be that given that the case diameter is so different, the enblock will be a problem but should be fairly easy to solve. I remember a 5 round enblock where there was a cut and bend involved, probably something like that. I would also want someone with more experience and education to verify that the receiver/barrel chamber can handle the pressure with the significantly thinner wall thickness that will result.

I won't ask why because I totally get the idea stuck in your head thing...
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Flatliner
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by Flatliner »

I just reread you post, if there is any part of this at all that has to do with saving money on ammo because you have lots of 300WM, I am thinking that is not the right approach. This seems like it will be a project that is an order of magnitude more expensive than getting set up to load a given caliber from scratch.

Also, I am now very confused on the 458 info too.
10Driver
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by 10Driver »

Turns out you’re not nuts for suggesting this conversion! :mrgreen:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefir ... arand/amp/

Google away for your answers...
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Jarem08
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by Jarem08 »

Thank you all for the questions. I will do my best to answer as I can.

First, bangbangping, you are correct. I am wanting to go to a 300 WM Garand. I was thinking having a standard feed as the Garand usually does. However, I may have to make it a little wider to handle a thicker chamber and maybe a little more re-enforcement for pressure.

Second, Flatliner, That was my concern as well. If it cost as much if not more to go this route than start from scratch, I am just going to go back to square one. Maybe save up for a Nemo or something along that way but as you said...the idea is in my head and barring an exhorbement cost, the idea of holding a little bit of history in my hand (even if modified) is appealing. My grandfather fought in the Pacific Theater as a paratrooper. He handled these weapons as well as a flame thrower. Never heard much about that one but the rifle more than once. Guess it is a little bit of sentimentality there. He passed away two years ago and I am just now getting to where I can do this...maybe. As far as the cost of starting over, that may be. I have over a grand in my reloading and ammo. To many that may not be much but to my household income, I had to save. But hey...didn't go into debt to get it :mrgreen: ! As far as the 458 info, my reason for that was to show the comparison between the two. Since the one is bigger, the other is doable as well.

Lastly, 10Driver, Thank you for the link. I did several searches and saw nothing for it except for the 458. I am off to read right now :P !

ETA: Watched the 10 sec video at the link. It looks as though the 458 is more straight line than the 300. But man...my trigger finger started twitching when he shot that. It is sad to note it is not made anymore since the main gun guy passed away. However, I have a guy here that is willing to look at this. I am wondering if, with my little help in R&D, it could be his signature rifle...with me getting one for my work 8) . I think tomorrow, after work, I am going to do some research on measurements and pressures for the weight scale of all the bullet weights. Thanks again guys for the thoughts and suggestions. Please keep them up and I will check in as I can.
Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for government but illegal for the citizenry - Thomas Jefferson

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10Driver
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by 10Driver »

If you Google 300WM M-1 Garand or 300WSM M-1Garand you’ll find what you’re looking for. Or, you can start from scratch and see if you can make it work.

For me, there’s generally no reason to reinvent the wheel if Goodyear and Michelin already sell tires.
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Jarem08
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by Jarem08 »

I did try to search it. The only thing I could find was the 458. Unless I am just not seeing it, it is sending me to an AR10 type platform or some other Black Rifle style.

Maybe I am missing something. If it has been done, I would rather not re-invent the wheel. But I have not seen anything.
Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for government but illegal for the citizenry - Thomas Jefferson

It is when a people forget God, that tyrants forge their chains - Patrick Henry

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10Driver
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by 10Driver »

You may need to call Google and have your search engine checked :roll:

I don’t recall how many posts there were, but their are others that did post of M-1 Garand and M-1A conversions. If my phone cut-and-paste worked, here’s a 300WSM video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MmsX9TPTVsw

I didn’t read or watch too far. Not something I want to build, but there is some material posted out there.
Mike7.62
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Re: I have an idea that can work. Need everyone's help!

Post by Mike7.62 »

I suppose that I would have to ask why, especially when you can get a modern rifle such as the Browning BAR in 300 WM which was designed for this type of cartridge?

I see a whole bunch of problems, not least of which is the belted case which would require a modification of both the bolt and the clips. Also, to get the greatest performance from the 300 WM, slow burning powders such as H4831 et alii are usually used, and which are totally incompatible with an op rod operated semi auto rifle due to longer pressure curves. I am also unsure that the Garand action is stressed for long term use with this type of cartridge. It was designed around the .30-06 with a 150 grain bullet running at 2800 f/s, not a 180 gr bullet at 3000 f/s. Another problem that I see is the use of optics. The 300 WM is usually used to give a flatter trajectory with greater hitting power at longer ranges in a hunting rifle, or in a .mil setting, in a sniper rifle. When you use a Garand action, you are limiting yourself to iron sights, or a side mounted scope which poses serious problems at longer ranges.

It's your money, so you can spend it any way that you want, but it sure seems like a great big can of worms, especially as original Garands are getting pretty darn expensive, even for rough shooter grade rifles.
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