Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

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MMA10mm
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by MMA10mm »

Dr. Phil, Like so many (most) of your posts, this one is well thought out and a highly interesting topic/perspective. If I may, I'd like to see the energy figures added to the information. I took the liberty of compiling the information for you and have posted it below, so you can just cut and paste.

Note that I chose to show the energy level at the max expansion distance, so this may be deceiving if used to compare one bullet against another at distance, as the max expansion distances vary so much. It also means, in my opinion, the muzzle energy figure is a better way to compare the various bullets with one another.

ACP 130gr CNC
ME = 1154 ft lbs
150yd Energy = 834 ft lbs

Barnes 110gr TAC
ME = 1291 ft lbs
350yd Energy = 478 ft lbs

Barnes 120gr TAC
ME = 1175 ft lbs
350yd Energy = 522 ft lbs

Barnes 130gr TSX
ME = 1154 ft lbs
300yd Energy = 565 ft lbs

Berger 155gr VLD
ME = 1376 ft lbs
125yd Energy = 1115 ft lbs

DRT 135gr HP
ME = 949 ft lbs
300yd Energy = 431 ft lbs

Hornady 110gr V-Max
ME = 1182 ft lbs
230yd Energy = 625 ft lbs

Hornady 110gr GMX
ME = 1182 ft lbs
250yd Energy = 625 ft lbs

Hornady 125gr SST
ME = 1224 ft lbs
200yd Energy = 710 ft lbs

Hornady 125gr GMX
ME = 1224 ft lbs
200yd Energy = 710 ft lbs

Hornady 135gr FTX
ME = 1199 ft lbs
200yd Energy = 767 ft lbs

Lehigh 194gr ME
ME = 475 ft lbs
1000yd Energy = 242 ft lbs

Lehigh 174gr CF
ME = 426 ft lbs
1000yd Energy = 217 ft lbs

Lehigh 170gr CF
ME = 416 ft lbs
1000yd Energy = 212 ft lbs

Lehigh 168gr CF
ME = 411 ft lbs
1000yd Energy = 210 ft lbs

Lehigh 115gr CC Copper
ME = 1410 ft lbs
250yd Energy = 537 ft lbs

Lehigh 110gr CC
ME = 1406 ft lbs
100yd Energy = 748 ft lbs

Lehigh 108gr CF
ME = 1224 ft lbs
500yd Energy = 153 ft lbs

Lehigh 78gr CQ
ME = 1170 ft lbs
275yd Energy = 530 ft lbs

Nosler 110gr Vamageddon
ME = 1077 ft lbs
125yd Energy = 791 ft lbs

Nosler 125gr BT
ME = 1224 ft lbs
100yd Energy = 791 ft lbs

Outlaw State 220gr EXOT
ME = 538 ft lbs
1000yd Energy = 313 ft lbs

Sierra 110gr HP
ME = 1077 ft lbs
150yd Energy = 625 ft lbs

Sierra 125gr SPT
ME = 1224 ft lbs
100yd Energy = 899 ft lbs

Sierra 135gr HP
ME = 1199 ft lbs
200yd Energy = 767 ft lbs

Sierra 125gr TNT
ME = 1224 ft lbs
275yd Energy = 624 ft lbs
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by slickyboyboo79 »

MMA10mm wrote:Dr. Phil, Like so many (most) of your posts, this one is well thought out and a highly interesting topic/perspective. If I may, I'd like to see the energy figures added to the information. I took the liberty of compiling the information for you and have posted it below, so you can just cut and paste.

Note that I chose to show the energy level at the max expansion distance, so this may be deceiving if used to compare one bullet against another at distance, as the max expansion distances vary so much. It also means, in my opinion, the muzzle energy figure is a better way to compare the various bullets with one another.



Sierra 135gr HP
ME = 1199 ft lbs
200yd Energy = 767 ft lbs
MMA10mm

Here is your real life data for the Sierra 135 gr Varminter HP from a 16" bbl. And yes the expansion threshold for this bullet is 1400 fps giving you a range of approximately 335 yds.

Image
Sierra 135 HP
BC = .308
mV = 2,130fps
Term Threshold = 1,400fps
MAX = ~335yds
https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/pro ... -135-gr-HP

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by MMA10mm »

Thanks Slick.

I just followed Dr. Phil's numbers, and will leave them that way for now, so as not to cause confusion why the numbers might not match if someone runs the equations themselves.

I also do not know where Dr. Phil got the numbers he posted. Sierra's reloading manual shows 300 BLK with this bullet running 2150 fps with a couple different powders, out of a 16" CMMG barrel.

One of the things I've learned about "real world" numbers is that they always vary. 5 barrels of the same length from the same manufacturer will average 5 different velocities. The same load through the same barrel with, say, a 20-shot run will vary quite a bit, even with hand-measured loads. And, then you have the situation of 300 BLK having common barrel lengths of: 8", 9", 10", and 16" and there's some less-common lengths I've left out... Therefore, I sympathize with Dr. Phil's difficulty of picking a load/velocity somewhere...

Where did you find the 1400fps threshold? I looked on the product description page you put the link for, but didn't see a floor, only a top-out of 3200fps...
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by rebel »

MMA10mm wrote:Thanks Slick.

I just followed Dr. Phil's numbers, and will leave them that way for now, so as not to cause confusion why the numbers might not match if someone runs the equations themselves.

I also do not know where Dr. Phil got the numbers he posted. Sierra's reloading manual shows 300 BLK with this bullet running 2150 fps with a couple different powders, out of a 16" CMMG barrel.

One of the things I've learned about "real world" numbers is that they always vary. 5 barrels of the same length from the same manufacturer will average 5 different velocities. The same load through the same barrel with, say, a 20-shot run will vary quite a bit, even with hand-measured loads. And, then you have the situation of 300 BLK having common barrel lengths of: 8", 9", 10", and 16" and there's some less-common lengths I've left out... Therefore, I sympathize with Dr. Phil's difficulty of picking a load/velocity somewhere...

Where did you find the 1400fps threshold? I looked on the product description page you put the link for, but didn't see a floor, only a top-out of 3200fps...
I'm pretty sure he got that number from Sierra.
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by dellet »

Pretty sure that 1600 number came from Sierra. That's from memory, and from my conversation with them also.

One thing to note. What I was told is that basically for that bullet to work as designed, it needs to be over Blackout velocities. Remember it is designed to explode in thin skinned animals. What is happening at lower velocities is that it just expands. So a lot of the actual performance will depend on how and what it hits. Expecting big things at low speeds might get you in trouble.

Better off to depend on placement.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by slickyboyboo79 »

The 1400 fps came directly from Sierra. I helped them with the development of that bullet back in Nov of 2013, after modifying their 125 gr matchkings to open at the lower velocities experienced with the blackout.
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by dellet »

slickyboyboo79 wrote:The 1400 fps came directly from Sierra. I helped them with the development of that bullet back in Nov of 2013, after modifying their 125 gr matchkings to open at the lower velocities experienced with the blackout.
It looks like they did a little more than just trim the meplat on a Match King in this design, actually it looks like it is more of a 110 Varminter design beefed up or a heavier Game King lightened. That bullet by the way was introduced more than 50 years ago.

You complained when this bullet was introduced that Sierra rejected your ideas and implied they stole it from you. Now you say you helped develop it. That leaves me a little confused.

So unless you can show proof of performance, which by the way we never got from your modified 125, I think people are better off trusting folks with a little better track record.

If I'm wrong great, show me. But your claims here and on the Amax line just don't match any body else's. One shot is not proof.

Mis-information on the capabilities of the cartridge are something that many people here have gone to great lengths to avoid. Calling B/S when that's exactly what it smells like is what keeps people coming here for reliable information.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by JAG45 »

Dr. Phil or others, anything on the Federal 130 gr MK 319 SOST. I have a big box of them and hoping for great things from them. Because you guys know your stuff.... Thanks
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by slickyboyboo79 »

dellet wrote:
slickyboyboo79 wrote:The 1400 fps came directly from Sierra. I helped them with the development of that bullet back in Nov of 2013, after modifying their 125 gr matchkings to open at the lower velocities experienced with the blackout.
It looks like they did a little more than just trim the meplat on a Match King in this design, actually it looks like it is more of a 110 Varminter design beefed up or a heavier Game King lightened. That bullet by the way was introduced more than 50 years ago.

You complained when this bullet was introduced that Sierra rejected your ideas and implied they stole it from you. Now you say you helped develop it. That leaves me a little confused.

So unless you can show proof of performance, which by the way we never got from your modified 125, I think people are better off trusting folks with a little better track record.

If I'm wrong great, show me. But your claims here and on the Amax line just don't match any body else's. One shot is not proof.

Mis-information on the capabilities of the cartridge are something that many people here have gone to great lengths to avoid. Calling B/S when that's exactly what it smells like is what keeps people coming here for reliable information.
I can see why you are a confused little man, because basically everything that you stated is incorrect. I never stated that in the design of that bullet, that they only trimmed the meplat on a matchking, and called it good. I also never accused or implied that anyone stole anything from me. I simply stated that they said it probably wouldn't work, however what I didn't post here, were all the back and forth emails with the Sierra ballisticians on the design, and several telephone calls about it after the initial discussion back in 2013. It also looks nothing like the 110 Varminter if you actually examine it closely.

The proof of performance of the modded 125 SMK has proved itself with the exit wounds it left in the deer that my brother, dad, and I have shot with either our 300 BLKs, or .308 bore 7.62x39 pistols. I also modded some 150 SMKs the same way, and they expand essentially the same as the 125s. They will expand, and leave an exit hole approximately the size of a silver dollar, that bleeds very well. Like anything else, don't shoot for bone, tuck it behind the shoulder, and you will be good to go.

As for the 155 A-max or the a-max line in general, not only have I seen it for myself, but there is plenty of evidence that shows that those bullets will expand down to the 1400 fps velocity stated, you just have to do your due diligence and learn about the subject you are pursuing.

So, you should probably read things for what they are, and get your facts straight before you start spouting off things that you are uneducated about.
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by dellet »

slickyboyboo79 wrote:
dellet wrote:
slickyboyboo79 wrote:The 1400 fps came directly from Sierra. I helped them with the development of that bullet back in Nov of 2013, after modifying their 125 gr matchkings to open at the lower velocities experienced with the blackout.
It looks like they did a little more than just trim the meplat on a Match King in this design, actually it looks like it is more of a 110 Varminter design beefed up or a heavier Game King lightened. That bullet by the way was introduced more than 50 years ago.

You complained when this bullet was introduced that Sierra rejected your ideas and implied they stole it from you. Now you say you helped develop it. That leaves me a little confused.

So unless you can show proof of performance, which by the way we never got from your modified 125, I think people are better off trusting folks with a little better track record.

If I'm wrong great, show me. But your claims here and on the Amax line just don't match any body else's. One shot is not proof.

Mis-information on the capabilities of the cartridge are something that many people here have gone to great lengths to avoid. Calling B/S when that's exactly what it smells like is what keeps people coming here for reliable information.
I can see why you are a confused little man, because basically everything that you stated is incorrect. I never stated that in the design of that bullet, that they only trimmed the meplat on a matchking, and called it good. I also never accused or implied that anyone stole anything from me. I simply stated that they said it probably wouldn't work, however what I didn't post here, were all the back and forth emails with the Sierra ballisticians on the design, and several telephone calls about it after the initial discussion back in 2013.

The proof of performance of the modded 125 SMK has proved itself with the exit wounds it left in the deer that my brother, dad, and I have shot with either our 300 BLKs, or .308 bore 7.62x39 pistols. I also modded some 150 SMKs the same way, and they expand essentially the same as the 125s. They will expand, and leave an exit hole approximately the size of a silver dollar, that bleeds very well. Like anything else, don't shoot for bone, tuck it behind the shoulder, and you will be good to go.

As for the 155 A-max or the a-max line in general, not only have I seen it for myself, but there is plenty of evidence that shows that those bullets will expand down to the 1400 fps velocity stated, you just have to do your due diligence and learn about the subject you are pursuing.

So, you should probably read things for what they are, and get your facts straight before you start spouting off things that you are uneducated about.
One thing I don't do, is spout off without doing my due diligence:
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=96854&p=934788&hi ... ra#p934788
slickyboyboo79 wrote:It is interesting to see this bullet being released by Sierra. I sent the Sierra ballisticians thoughts, and pics of my, modified for hunting, 125 gr 300 BLK matchkings, 2 yrs ago, and they told me not to expect much out of it, for terminal performance.

Fast forward 2 yrs, and they released my bullet design, in a 135 gr.

I picked some up, to try as a low velocity load. I heard they will expand down to 1500-1400 fps.
viewtopic.php?f=128&t=96656&p=934748&hi ... ra#p934748
slickyboyboo79 wrote:This bullet is very interesting to see, coming from Sierra. I sent the ballisticians at Sierra my thoughts, and examples of my modified 125 gr 300 BLK Matchking, and they told me it likely wouldn't work. 2 years later they release the exact bullet, in a 135 gr.
As for my comment on the 125 with only a meplat trim, I never said that's what Sierra did. I figured you would remember what your design you submitted to Sierra was. I didn't realize you had such a hard time remembering your own words as shown in the quotes above.

Thread where you talked about your 125 modification.
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=86048&hilit=sierra

Again not saying it didn't happen, but if you get your story straight, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

As for due diligence on the Amax line, I have not tested the 168 or 155 versions, but the 178's at 1700- 1800 fps did not perform as you described at 1400.

I have done probably as much, if not more testing of the 300 Blackout with heavy supers than anyone else. I simply pointed out your claims are questionable from my experiences. If the 155 Amax will expand reliably to 1400 fps, then I will have a 400 yard round.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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