overly charged load?

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kroeker
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overly charged load?

Post by kroeker » Tue May 12, 2015 11:20 am

So I just got a Remington 700 aac-sd in 300 blk and started reloading. I've mostly been shooting 150 gr hornadys with 4.4 grains of titegroup and 150's with 16.5 grains h110. When I was at the store picking up some bullets they had a box of hornady 220 gr rn so I picked it up to too play with. I started with 9.8 grains h110 which I found online someone else using. They shot fine but were a little loud.

So I looked into using the titegroup with the 220's and found a max load of 8 grains. So I loaded up 6 rounds, 2 at 7.8 grains, 2 at 7 grains and 2 at 6.5 grains. I started with the lighter loads and worked up. 6.5's and 7's went subsonic and super quiet. Then I chambered the first 7.8 load. Pulled the trigger, it cracked the sound barrier blew gas in my face and actually had pretty decent recoil.

Bolt opened hard but did open and the case was stuck in the bolt face. I couldn't get it out of the bolt either it seems like its damn near fused to it. So I ordered a new bolt, ejector and extractor. All previous rounds fired and left the barrel. And I pulled the bullet on the last round and weighted the powder, 7.8 grains.

So what happened? Anyone else had this same experience? Right now I'm calling it a $200 f'up on my part and hoping it doesn't happen again. But would like to know if its something else these were all cases that were previously fired. And yes I'm 100% sure I didn't have a squib in the barrel from the previous round fired.

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dellet
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by dellet » Tue May 12, 2015 12:00 pm

kroeker wrote:So I just got a Remington 700 aac-sd in 300 blk and started reloading. I've mostly been shooting 150 gr hornadys with 4.4 grains of titegroup and 150's with 16.5 grains h110. When I was at the store picking up some bullets they had a box of hornady 220 gr rn so I picked it up to too play with. I started with 9.8 grains h110 which I found online someone else using. They shot fine but were a little loud.

So I looked into using the titegroup with the 220's and found a max load of 8 grains. So I loaded up 6 rounds, 2 at 7.8 grains, 2 at 7 grains and 2 at 6.5 grains. I started with the lighter loads and worked up. 6.5's and 7's went subsonic and super quiet. Then I chambered the first 7.8 load. Pulled the trigger, it cracked the sound barrier blew gas in my face and actually had pretty decent recoil.

Bolt opened hard but did open and the case was stuck in the bolt face. I couldn't get it out of the bolt either it seems like its damn near fused to it. So I ordered a new bolt, ejector and extractor. All previous rounds fired and left the barrel. And I pulled the bullet on the last round and weighted the powder, 7.8 grains.

So what happened? Anyone else had this same experience? Right now I'm calling it a $200 f'up on my part and hoping it doesn't happen again. But would like to know if its something else these were all cases that were previously fired. And yes I'm 100% sure I didn't have a squib in the barrel from the previous round fired.
Where did the load data for Titegroup come from? and what was the exact formula listed, and the exact one you loaded?

A couple things might have happened, one for certain. The jump from 7 grains to 7.8 is way too much with a max of 8.0 listed.

The other was that either the source of info was bad, or you did not follow directions. Most notably the one that should have said to work up your load slowly, and if you change any component work up even slower with more care.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

tallburnedmidget
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by tallburnedmidget » Tue May 12, 2015 12:10 pm

kroeker wrote:So I just got a Remington 700 aac-sd in 300 blk and started reloading. I've mostly been shooting 150 gr hornadys with 4.4 grains of titegroup and 150's with 16.5 grains h110. When I was at the store picking up some bullets they had a box of hornady 220 gr rn so I picked it up to too play with. I started with 9.8 grains h110 which I found online someone else using. They shot fine but were a little loud.

So I looked into using the titegroup with the 220's and found a max load of 8 grains. So I loaded up 6 rounds, 2 at 7.8 grains, 2 at 7 grains and 2 at 6.5 grains. I started with the lighter loads and worked up. 6.5's and 7's went subsonic and super quiet. Then I chambered the first 7.8 load. Pulled the trigger, it cracked the sound barrier blew gas in my face and actually had pretty decent recoil.

Bolt opened hard but did open and the case was stuck in the bolt face. I couldn't get it out of the bolt either it seems like its damn near fused to it. So I ordered a new bolt, ejector and extractor. All previous rounds fired and left the barrel. And I pulled the bullet on the last round and weighted the powder, 7.8 grains.

So what happened? Anyone else had this same experience? Right now I'm calling it a $200 f'up on my part and hoping it doesn't happen again. But would like to know if its something else these were all cases that were previously fired. And yes I'm 100% sure I didn't have a squib in the barrel from the previous round fired.
I had the same over charged experience with Red Dot powder. I was experimenting with no 300BLK load data and trying to extrapolate a load from 308 load data using Red Dot for subs. The same formulas did not exactly apply lol. I ended up with a case much like the one you mentioned but I was able to pry it out of my bolt with some needle nose pliers. I had to replace the extractor, ejector, and a spring ($20 worth of parts) in my bolt and I learned my that my load ladder was waaaaaaay too high. I came down like 2 grains started working back up and messing with COAL.

I didn't have an accidental over charge mine was simply due to no 300BLK load data and experimenting. Thank goodness I followed what safe loading practices I could to keep from having a BOOM but ultimately it is not safe to load anything w/out published data. I'll let others be the guinea pigs in the future :)

I'm close to finishing the Red Dot load and someday I'll revisit it :)

kroeker
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by kroeker » Tue May 12, 2015 12:21 pm

Load data came from a google search that led me to a thread. Which is where I'm finding most of my info since there seems to be a lack of decent published load data for bolt gun loads. I don't have that thread in front of me since I'm sitting at work but the load was 7.8gr titegroup behind a 220 gr bullet at 1150 fps out of a bolt gun. As far as the bolt itself I'm thinking it's a total loss. When I get home I'm going to make a mandrel so I can put it in my lathe and hopeful salvage it for later use as a spare. But it looks like it's pretty chewed up from the gasses. I worked on it for an hour and still never got the rim of the case free from the bolt face.

golfindia
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by golfindia » Tue May 12, 2015 12:27 pm

I've noticed in the last couple years that "working up a load" has evolved into "picking a load from some anonymous person off the internet and hoping for the best".

Disturbing trend.....

kroeker
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by kroeker » Tue May 12, 2015 12:34 pm

Ya I know not the smartest thing to do and believe me I've learned my lesson on using random data. To me this lesson was expensive but it could have been a lot worse.

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dellet
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by dellet » Tue May 12, 2015 12:37 pm

kroeker wrote:So I just got a Remington 700 aac-sd in 300 blk and started reloading. I've mostly been shooting 150 gr hornadys with 4.4 grains of titegroup and 150's with 16.5 grains h110. When I was at the store picking up some bullets they had a box of hornady 220 gr rn so I picked it up to too play with. I started with 9.8 grains h110 which I found online someone else using. They shot fine but were a little loud.

So I looked into using the titegroup with the 220's and found a max load of 8 grains. So I loaded up 6 rounds, 2 at 7.8 grains, 2 at 7 grains and 2 at 6.5 grains. I started with the lighter loads and worked up. 6.5's and 7's went subsonic and super quiet. Then I chambered the first 7.8 load. Pulled the trigger, it cracked the sound barrier blew gas in my face and actually had pretty decent recoil.

Bolt opened hard but did open and the case was stuck in the bolt face. I couldn't get it out of the bolt either it seems like its damn near fused to it. So I ordered a new bolt, ejector and extractor. All previous rounds fired and left the barrel. And I pulled the bullet on the last round and weighted the powder, 7.8 grains.

So what happened? Anyone else had this same experience? Right now I'm calling it a $200 f'up on my part and hoping it doesn't happen again. But would like to know if its something else these were all cases that were previously fired. And yes I'm 100% sure I didn't have a squib in the barrel from the previous round fired.

kroeker wrote:Load data came from a google search that led me to a thread. Which is where I'm finding most of my info since there seems to be a lack of decent published load data for bolt gun loads. I don't have that thread in front of me since I'm sitting at work but the load was 7.8gr titegroup behind a 220 gr bullet at 1150 fps out of a bolt gun. As far as the bolt itself I'm thinking it's a total loss. When I get home I'm going to make a mandrel so I can put it in my lathe and hopeful salvage it for later use as a spare. But it looks like it's pretty chewed up from the gasses. I worked on it for an hour and still never got the rim of the case free from the bolt face.
I'll be a dick and tell you I have highlighted the two biggest problems.

Most likely a change of bullets caused your problem. If the bullet in the original load was not a round nose. If this was the change you made to bullet was likely too close to the lands and you had a severe pressure spike. If you do not know the length where that bullet will touch the lands in your chamber, there is no way to tell for sure. That distance will change with your new bolt.

There has been a huge increase new loaders to the forum and a lot of disasters narrowly diverted. Grabbing bits and pieces of info on the internet will be deadly for someone. People need to re-discover the value of books and teachers.

Glad your safe, post the load and we can try to sort it out. In the mean time be careful and if you have a question run it by the folks here. there simply is no better resource for the cartridge.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

golfindia
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by golfindia » Tue May 12, 2015 12:47 pm

kroeker wrote:Ya I know not the smartest thing to do and believe me I've learned my lesson on using random data. To me this lesson was expensive but it could have been a lot worse.
Titegroup being super fast, has some of the smallest starting-max load ranges of any powder out there. It's probably not the best for experiments.

I have not, and probably will not ever, venture into using pistol powder with heavy bullets.

kroeker
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by kroeker » Tue May 12, 2015 12:54 pm

I'll stick with the titegroup and 150's for my cheap plinking round. What's a good powder for the heavier bullets that's quiet? I wasn't impressed with the h110 for sub's it was still fairly loud

VinnAY
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by VinnAY » Tue May 12, 2015 1:11 pm

I think it's a great conversation to have, sticking to published data for our hand loads. Conversely with this caliber, you can't pickup a Hornady/Hogdon/etc etc book and find Blackout data, supers, subs, or both. It's just not WIDELY available in published format. You're left to forums for this stuff so what's a guy to do? He did right, worked up a load, tested a few rounds with success, found one that didn't work. 7.8 of a max 8.0 load isn't too much, either. Unfortunately he forked his bolt in the process, but I challenge any loader that hasn't had a fubar moment.

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