overly charged load?

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TMD
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by TMD » Tue May 12, 2015 3:25 pm

kroeker wrote:
TMD wrote:Experimenting with Titegroup is a recipe for disaster. Being a superfast fine grain powder that's normally used in small quantities it's very easy to double charge a load. With the case capacity of the 300bo you could easily triple and maybe even quadruple the charge.

This is what I first thought happen. I use a Lee 4 hole turret press but I use it in manual 1 stage at a time just like a single stage and add powder by hand. I thought I double charged the case that gave me the problem but after pulling the bullet on the other one and it having powder in it ruled that out. I'm still surprised that going from 7 grains to 7.8 grains was that dramatic of a difference. The 7 grain load was like shooting a 22 and the 7.8 like something with a lot more snort. No pressure signs at on the 7 grain case either.
If your loading manually one stage at a time then its definitely easy to get distracted and double charge a case and not miss the next one.
I also use a LCT but when I load one stage at a time I put all my cases in a loading block and use a flashlight to visually inspect all the cases with powder before moving on to seating bullets. With most powders its easy to spot one that's off by too little or too much but with powders like Titegroup where the charge is small and the case is large it can be easily over looked.
I've been reloading for a very long time and one thing I have learned is to avoid ALL distractions when I'm doing it. I generally leave my cell phone in the house and let my wife know to not disturb me.

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dellet
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by dellet » Tue May 12, 2015 3:26 pm

kroeker wrote:
Dr.Phil wrote:One other option is SEE.
(Secondary Explosive Effect)
Usually only an issue with slower powders, but small charges in a big case do strange things.
(This article describes it happening with fast powders. http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm )
By your description, this very may be what happened to you.

Just for the sake of consistent ignition, I try to select powders that come as close to 100% case fill as possible.
Actual makes sense after reading that. Especially after reading this part,

Your pointing it at the ground just before firing probably put all the powder up against the bullet

Almost all of my shooting so far has been laying on my stomach on the ground shooting off a sand bag. This time around I was shooting standing up and point of aim was actually about 30° downhill. Might be a stretch but ya never know.
If you honestly think that is the problem, stop shooting your 150 loads. You have less powder and less bullet in the load, so it will be more likely to happen.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: overly charged load?

Post by golfindia » Tue May 12, 2015 4:32 pm

Dr.Phil wrote:One other option is SEE.
(Secondary Explosive Effect)
Usually only an issue with slower powders, but small charges in a big case do strange things.
(This article describes it happening with fast powders. http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm )
By your description, this very may be what happened to you.

Just for the sake of consistent ignition, I try to select powders that come as close to 100% case fill as possible.
People use Titegroup in 357mag and 38spl all the time without any problems, and that's about the same volume as 300blk.

I try to go for the smallest weight load possible, because it's more economical in the long run. Bullseye pistol loads are generally smaller even than titegroup..... Pistol loads are a different matter. Just don't use bullseye to try to make subsonic 308's, it's pretty much just common sense.

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Re: overly charged load?

Post by kroeker » Tue May 12, 2015 7:04 pm

Well... I got the rest of the case out of the bolt face. It was actually formed into the extractor groove. Extractors toast but the ejector survived. Bolt face is pretty ugly but it still shoots. Still going to retire it when the new one shows up.

I rechecked the four spent cases I had from yesterday. Put them right up under the light to get a good look at them and sure enough one case has a light ejector mark. I also decapped and reprimed them just for shits and giggles. On two of the cases I felt no resistance when priming. I'm guessing these two cases were the 7 grain load. So I definitely had pressure issues and didn't notice before I got to the one that ate my bolt.

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rebel
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by rebel » Tue May 12, 2015 8:39 pm

After what you just posted, I will take a stab and say this wasn't a SEE, simply an overcharged load. If you double charged your case with Titegroup, your rifle and yourself would probably be missing stuff. Glad your OK. Get some manuals and read up, just on simple reloading practices and procedures. It sure helped me years ago. Sit them in front of the toilet where you can concentrate :mrgreen: At least here, not just any yahoo can post a load in the forums stickies. They are reviewed and checked and scrutinized by a number of experienced reloaders. Welcome to the forum, be safe.
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tcoz
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by tcoz » Thu May 21, 2015 7:16 pm

If I would've used every load I've found online, I would've blown up fifty guns and myself by now. If I don't see a load published I won't use it.
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ThreeHundredTraveler
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by ThreeHundredTraveler » Thu May 21, 2015 9:12 pm

Not 300Blk but 308Win. Published load data. I bought a bunch of Federal ammo to use for both fun shooting and donor cases. Since I had not shot too many of those yet and wanted to work up some loads, I bought 50 load ready once fired cases distributed by Top Brass. I did most of the loading on the once fired Federal Cases from my shooting and from LC cases culled from the Top Brass. All were great. I grabbed some of the Top Brass and loaded up one of my ladders. One of the cases blew the primer out. It was some oddball POS. That case had a much lower internal volume. Hence too much pressure.

Knowing that I went through all the remaining Top Brass and kept only the LC brass. The rest went in the trash. I had at the same time picked up some Top Brass 300Blk and am using Ozark Ordnance 147FMJ ammo for donor cases. So I just got done sorting all that and have about 30 cases that are not LC. In the trash they went.

So for the OP if the brass was mixed brands it is highly likely you too could have found a POS piece of crap brass.

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Deputyhiro
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by Deputyhiro » Thu May 21, 2015 9:38 pm

dellet wrote:
kroeker wrote:So I just got a Remington 700 aac-sd in 300 blk and started reloading. I've mostly been shooting 150 gr hornadys with 4.4 grains of titegroup and 150's with 16.5 grains h110. When I was at the store picking up some bullets they had a box of hornady 220 gr rn so I picked it up to too play with. I started with 9.8 grains h110 which I found online someone else using. They shot fine but were a little loud.

So I looked into using the titegroup with the 220's and found a max load of 8 grains. So I loaded up 6 rounds, 2 at 7.8 grains, 2 at 7 grains and 2 at 6.5 grains. I started with the lighter loads and worked up. 6.5's and 7's went subsonic and super quiet. Then I chambered the first 7.8 load. Pulled the trigger, it cracked the sound barrier blew gas in my face and actually had pretty decent recoil.

Bolt opened hard but did open and the case was stuck in the bolt face. I couldn't get it out of the bolt either it seems like its damn near fused to it. So I ordered a new bolt, ejector and extractor. All previous rounds fired and left the barrel. And I pulled the bullet on the last round and weighted the powder, 7.8 grains.

So what happened? Anyone else had this same experience? Right now I'm calling it a $200 f'up on my part and hoping it doesn't happen again. But would like to know if its something else these were all cases that were previously fired. And yes I'm 100% sure I didn't have a squib in the barrel from the previous round fired.

kroeker wrote:Load data came from a google search that led me to a thread. Which is where I'm finding most of my info since there seems to be a lack of decent published load data for bolt gun loads. I don't have that thread in front of me since I'm sitting at work but the load was 7.8gr titegroup behind a 220 gr bullet at 1150 fps out of a bolt gun. As far as the bolt itself I'm thinking it's a total loss. When I get home I'm going to make a mandrel so I can put it in my lathe and hopeful salvage it for later use as a spare. But it looks like it's pretty chewed up from the gasses. I worked on it for an hour and still never got the rim of the case free from the bolt face.
I'll be a dick and tell you I have highlighted the two biggest problems.

Most likely a change of bullets caused your problem. If the bullet in the original load was not a round nose. If this was the change you made to bullet was likely too close to the lands and you had a severe pressure spike. If you do not know the length where that bullet will touch the lands in your chamber, there is no way to tell for sure. That distance will change with your new bolt.

There has been a huge increase new loaders to the forum and a lot of disasters narrowly diverted. Grabbing bits and pieces of info on the internet will be deadly for someone. People need to re-discover the value of books and teachers.

Glad your safe, post the load and we can try to sort it out. In the mean time be careful and if you have a question run it by the folks here. there simply is no better resource for the cartridge.
I'll be the dick here... You're ripping on him for trusting an internet resource, but telling him to trust an internet resource? Get published data. Period. It may be more difficult, but its out there. Don't trust any armchair quarterback on any forum. Your're responsible for your own safety.

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rebel
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by rebel » Fri May 22, 2015 5:52 pm

Anyone that has been here for any length of time knows and trusts dellet's opinion. The OP hasn't and you haven't but the past reloading advice and trouble shooting help is still here, for all to read, using a Google search. Why do any of us come to this forum? Knowledge. I do agree published load data should be followed, but you quickly learn, if you have a good working knowledge of the ABC s, who to listen to and who not to. I also agree that it is your responsibility to ensure your face stays where it is. edit - besides new guy, he wasn't ripping him. That attitude won't get you very far here.
Last edited by rebel on Fri May 22, 2015 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: overly charged load?

Post by InMyHumbleOpinion » Fri May 22, 2015 6:15 pm

Just a thought on separating the bolt from brass, put it all in the freezer overnight. I put armatures in the freezer when I am replacing bearings and in the morning they go on easy, might be enough difference in shrink rates of the metals to free it up.

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