Leatherhead 240g Cast Lead Hi-Tek Projectiles - Load Data and Results - A1680 IMR4227 Reloader 7

[RDA]

Ok, so I bought some of the Leatherhead 240g cast lead Hi-Tek coated bullets and finally got around to testing them. COAL was 2.100" (I tried longer but they wouldn't chamber consistently and even 2.100" was a tad long at times), five shots, I am using the 9" AAC barrel (7.62-SDN suppressor when used) and I shot them at 100 yards in good conditions at 78F, light consistent wind (bench rest, 15x scope, same set-up I can shoot sub MOA with other rifles).

Unsuppressed:
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.2 grains - 33 SD - 1,000 fps - 4.01 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.4 grains - 16 SD - 1,022 fps - 3.82 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.6 grains - 18 SD - 1,043 fps - 3.58 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.8 grains - 23 SD - 1,059 fps - 2.87 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 11.0 grains - 12 SD - 1,090 fps - 2.96 MOA

Suppressed:
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.2 grains - 23 SD - 1,011 fps - 3.53 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.4 grains - 11 SD - 1,024 fps - 1.81 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.6 grains - 18 SD - 1,049 fps - 1.91 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.8 grains - 8 SD - 1,059 fps - 3.44 MOA
Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 11.0 grains - 23 SD - 1,104 fps - 4.39 MOA


Unsuppressed:
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.0 grains - 16 SD - 1,025 fps - 5.16 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.2 grains - 13 SD - 1,027 fps - 2.39 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.4 grains - 10 SD - 1,055 fps - 2.87 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.6 grains - 3 SD - 1,066 fps - 1.91 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.8 grains - 14 SD - 1,082 fps - 3.72 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 10.0 grains - 17 SD - 1,099 fps - 4.58 MOA

Suppressed:
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.0 grains - 5 SD - 1,029 fps - 4.78 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.2 grains - 14 SD - 1,041 fps - 2.44 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.4 grains - 4 SD - 1,060 fps - 4.78 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.6 grains - 10 SD - 1,075 fps - 3.82 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 9.8 grains - 9 SD - 1,075 fps - 2.96 MOA
CCI 41 - 4227 - 10.0 grains - 4 SD - 1,104 fps - 5.73 MOA


Unsuppressed:
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.0 grains - 22 SD - 1,064 fps
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.2 grains - 15 SD - 1,073 fps
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.4 grains - 11 SD - 1,103 fps
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.6 grains - 9 SD - 1,114 fps

Suppressed:
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.0 grains - 4 SD - 1,066 fps
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.2 grains - 11 SD - 1,063 fps
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.4 grains - 12 SD - 1,107 fps
CCI 41 - Reloader 7 - 11.6 grains - 20 SD - 1,115 fps

I got last round bolt hold opening and cycling on all loads but occasionally a round wouldn't fully chamber (2.100" was still a little long for my chamber). I don't believe any of them went supersonic (approximately 1,137 at the time of my testing) even though I was flirting with those speeds at times (highest individual speed I recorded was 1,139) with the 11.6g or RE7).

Overall Thoughts:
* I'd say these are quality projectiles for the cost. The rounds held up well, they fed fine and even the ones I cycled and withdrew from the chamber we re unblemished from being stripped from the magazine and chambering.
* I was hoping for better accuracy, I am always optimistic when it comes to accuracy but I am not sure if I should be expecting more than this from these rounds. My AAC barrel is no tack driver (see note below) but I do get better results from heavy jacketed bullets (208 AMAX or 220 g SMK or Nosler CC which obviously cost more). There were a couple of decent groups and this testing was admittedly limited but I might load up 10-20 rounds of what I think are the better results from above to see how well they work purely based on shooting groups.
* The standard deviation of the IMR 4227 and Reloader 7 was pretty remarkable, especially as I loaded all of these rounds on an XL 650 using the powder measure.
* Suppressor versus no suppressor made almost no difference on speeds.


Note: I have tried a few of my supersonic loads in my 9" AAC barrel back-to-back with a Wilson Combat 16" barrel and the same exact rounds shot 2X tighter in the Wilson barrel than my barrel. This was only about ten rounds but it was enlightening. On the same day as I shot the loads above I shot some Speer TNT loads with N110 and saw 2-3 MOA results and Honady 123g VMAX with N110 and saw 1.5-2.5 MOA results. I am seriously considering doing a build with a Wilson Combat barrel in 16" or 18" just for some bench fun.

[afshirt]

I run these at 9.5g of 4227 and get just at 1.5 inch groups at 50.

[Nic56]

That's a lot of data you compiled. I have been shooting them at 50 yards. I think I tried them early on at 100, but my groups were kind of bad, and I was still experimenting.

I experienced a similar situation with loading them at 2.100. I have shot them successfully at 2.110. I loaded 50 at that length and they all cycled, but I figured I would stick to 2.100. However, I was shooting a few days ago and one round did not fully chamber. With some effort, I was able to extract it using the charging handle. I checked the length and it was 2.100 exactly, but I could see where some coating had rubbed off the bullet near the case mouth. So, I seated that bullet to just hide the mark. The resulting length was 2.078. I found that to be a bit coincidental since that is the length I started loading them at first. I cannot remember my reasoning for starting out at 2.078. But, I think I will stick to 2.078 for reliability.

As far as accuracy, I would say my experience is much like Afshort. Usually I have 1.5 inch groups. I can usually put 3 holes touching in one group and then two rounds ruin the spread, or even one bad flier totally blows the group. I think annealed cases helped me some, but I just can't overcome the fliers.

I'm loading them with 9.1 grains IMR 4227. I shot all of them suppressed. FPS is about 1015 to 1030 FPS. I barely crimp with a Lee crimp die, and not enough to affect the bullet at all. I usually hit each round with the crimp twice. I crimp once, turn the case a bit and crimp again. I doubt that is necessary though.

For subsonic short distance use, I will probably continue to use these bullets. For the price, they are accurate enough. They also work flawlessly in my short barreled upper.

[afshirt]

That is exactly what I am getting. Quite a few touching easily and then a few flyers.

[RDA]

I run these at 9.5g of 4227 and get just at 1.5 inch groups at 50.

Did you chrono? What barrel? 9.5g of 4227 would be right about 1,050 based on my data.

That is exactly what I am getting. Quite a few touching easily and then a few flyers.

That is at 50 yards? If so, it would certainly spread out a fair bit at 100 yards I'd imagine.

That's a lot of data you compiled. I have been shooting them at 50 yards. I think I tried them early on at 100, but my groups were kind of bad, and I was still experimenting.

100 yards is pretty unforgiving I imagine for these bullets, if I shot them at 50 yards, I would surely have 1.5" - 2.0" groups. I could take pics of the 5 shot groups but the data is listed above.

I experienced a similar situation with loading them at 2.100. I have shot them successfully at 2.110. I loaded 50 at that length and they all cycled, but I figured I would stick to 2.100. However, I was shooting a few days ago and one round did not fully chamber. With some effort, I was able to extract it using the charging handle. I checked the length and it was 2.100 exactly, but I could see where some coating had rubbed off the bullet near the case mouth. So, I seated that bullet to just hide the mark. The resulting length was 2.078. I found that to be a bit coincidental since that is the length I started loading them at first. I cannot remember my reasoning for starting out at 2.078. But, I think I will stick to 2.078 for reliability.

You described my experience exactly. I originally tried dummy rounds and some would chamber at long as 2.13X" or so, but not consistently. I worked my way down to 2.100" and called it good then loaded up ~200 rounds for the testing listed above. At the range, there were probably 10-15 rounds that wouldn't fully chamber and I found the exact same results, the coating would have a ring around it at the shoulder just above the case mouth. I'll probably go down to 2.090" or 2.080" and load up a few more batches where I saw better results above and try again.

As far as accuracy, I would say my experience is much like Afshort. Usually I have 1.5 inch groups. I can usually put 3 holes touching in one group and then two rounds ruin the spread, or even one bad flier totally blows the group. I think annealed cases helped me some, but I just can't overcome the fliers.

A number of my five shot groups were similar.

I'm loading them with 9.1 grains IMR 4227. I shot all of them suppressed. FPS is about 1015 to 1030 FPS. I barely crimp with a Lee crimp die, and not enough to affect the bullet at all. I usually hit each round with the crimp twice. I crimp once, turn the case a bit and crimp again. I doubt that is necessary though.

Your speeds for that load are identical to my results. What barrel?

I also "crimp" but I mainly due it to remove any belling from the case mouth, all of the bullets that were pulled showed no damage to the coating.

For subsonic short distance use, I will probably continue to use these bullets. For the price, they are accurate enough. They also work flawlessly in my short barreled upper.

Agreed.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

[afshirt]

No chrono on my part. I just don't have one yet. I went soley by group size to determine load. It is an 8 inch barrel.

[Nic56]

If I posted some pictures of my targets, they would look like Afshort's for the most part. Some might be better, others would be worse, but on average mine look like that.

So, I think I am done trying to squeeze out any more accuracy. I may increase my charge perhaps .1 grain, but that's probably going to do it.

RDA, I too crimp mainly to remove the expansion from the case. I know there is really no need for me to hit the case a second time with the crimp die, but I do it anyway. I think I started doing that because I loaded some of the Leatherhead bullets using PNW Blackout brass I bought from MidwayUSA. I bought it because it was factory annealed. I'm not sure if it was annealed too much, but I was able to push the bullets further down into the case by hand after I had seated them. The cases I annealed would not do that. So, I started hitting them twice with the crimp just to help keep the bullet in place.

I'm using a 10.5" Noveske barrel upper I put together. With the exclusion of stability testing early on, I shoot them with my Specwar suppressor attached.

I enjoy shooting them with the suppressor. I shoot into a bank and they make a loud thumping noise when they smack into the hillside. It would be great if they grouped a little better, but I'm fine with it for the price. I can't seem to shoot anything subsonic very well at 100 yards anyway. I think I should just stick to supersonic stuff at that distance.

[RDA]

Ok, more work today with the Leatherhead 240g cast lead Hi-Tek coated bullets (and how they compare to some jacketed rounds with similar loading and shot at the same time). COAL on the Leather Heads was 2.085" (a little shorter hoping for consistent chambering), five shot groups, I am using the 9" AAC barrel (7.62-SDN suppressor) and I shot them at 100 yards in good conditions at 87F and relative calm winds. Grouped them together based on the powder used:

Suppressed - 1680 powder:
Leatherhead 240g - Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.6 grains - 18 SD - 1,072 fps - 5.13 MOA
Leatherhead 240g - Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.6 grains - 15 SD - 1,071 fps - 3.44 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.6 grains - 16 SD - 977 fps - 1.66 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.6 grains - 16 SD - 998 fps - 2.24 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.8 grains - 12 SD - 1,059 fps - 1.67 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - Rem 7 1/2 - A1680 - 10.8 grains - 17 SD - 1,059 fps - 2.03 MOA

Suppressed - 4227 powder:
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - 4227 - 9.3 grains - 9 SD - 1,061 fps - 5.73 MOA
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - 4227 - 9.3 grains - 10 SD - 1,049 fps - 5.35 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - 4227 - 9.3 grains - 13 SD - 1,015 fps - 1.98 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - 4227 - 9.3 grains - 7 SD - 1,003 fps - 2.39 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - 4227 - 9.5 grains - 14 SD - 1,032 fps - 2.10 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - 4227 - 9.5 grains - 14 SD - 1,075 fps - 2.72 MOA

Suppressed - RE7 powder:
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - RE7- 10.8 grains - 11 SD - 1,061 fps - Bad (6+ MOA)
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - RE7- 10.8 grains - 14 SD - 1,064 fps - Bad (6+ MOA)
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 8 SD - 1,078 fps - Bad (6+ MOA)
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 4 SD - 1,082 fps - Bad (6+ MOA)
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.2 grains - 8 SD - 1,094 fps - Bad (6+ MOA)
Leatherhead 240g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.2 grains - 18 SD - 1,089 fps - Bad (6+ MOA)

Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 10.8 grains - 21 SD - 1,003 fps - 2.64 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 10.8 grains - 12 SD - 999 fps - 1.13 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 9 SD - 1,014 fps - 1.43 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 10 SD - 1,015 fps - 1.14 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.2 grains - 16 SD - 1,033 fps - 2.93 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.2 grains - 19 SD - 1,040 fps - 3.23 MOA

Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 12 SD - 1,076 fps - 1.08 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 14 SD - 1,082 fps - 2.39 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.2 grains - 8 SD - 1,093 fps - 2.82 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.2 grains - 4 SD - 1,102 fps - 2.87 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.4 grains - 14 SD - 1,109 fps - 2.45 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.4 grains - 8 SD - 1,103 fps - 1.72 MOA

I got last round bolt hold opening and cycling on all loads and all rounds fed and fully chamber without issue (Lancer AWM 10 round mag). None of them were supersonic as far as I could tell.

As you can see above, I continue to have pretty poor results with the Leather Head accuracy from my 9" AAC barrel, in particular with Reloader 7 powder, I wouldn't have even called them "groups" honestly. I had horrible results with the Reloader 7 last week as well, that is why I tried again today and had similarly bad results. In comparison, the Nosler CC's and Hornady A-MAX shot pretty well. The Nosler CC's with Reloader 7 had three of the four best groups on the day.

The Leather Head bullets averaged over 6 MOA overall for the 10 groups today, whereas the Nosler CC's were 2.08 MOA and the Hornady A-MAX were 2.18 MOA in their 10 respective groups.

[hunter2]

Have you measured some, load them, pull them and remeasure. Possible you are sizing them down too far when loaded. I had that problem at first. Just a suggestion..

[RDA]

Have you measured some, load them, pull them and remeasure. Possible you are sizing them down too far when loaded. I had that problem at first. Just a suggestion..

Good suggestion but it is not that, I flare my cases before seating the bullet then use a taper crimp die to remove the flare/bell. I disassembled some rounds and the coating was perfect, not mark and no change in dimensions.

What kind of accuracy are you getting and what set-up?