French made Nobel Sport smokeless powder at Grafs?

[Jmorrismetal]

I used BA10 up to about 10 years ago when they quit importing it.

May start using t again if it is still as cheap as it was back then.

[r.tenorio671]

...on the Grafs site under the "Technical Notes" section there is a link to Vectan's Reloaodng data, the chart on page #4 shows that "Ba6 1/2" is equivalent to H110, Enforcer, W296 and N110, all proven performers for 300Blk.

link: http://issuu.com/grafandsons/docs/vecta ... 9/11745149

Agree, that was my first choice based on the info I saw...I was just noting that in the data that dellet found for the whisper, one particular 125gr load (sp10) max f/s was 2460 with what seemed to be a much slower burning powder. My first thought is that must be a typo...but it is interesting.

I have always thought that if there was a fine powder that had similar expansion to h-110 but a slower burn, it would give blackout a little more velocity particularly in longer barrels. I'm guessing you could fit 22gr of H110 like powder in a blackout case and if it burned a little slower you could manage pressure....all hypothetical of course.

TTF

...I'd certainly would like to see someones test results with it in 16" and >10" barrels, JBM has some pretty impressive calculated numbers for it out to 400M.

[TreeTopFlier]

I just backordered 2 cans of the Nobel Sport Ba6 1/2 or Ba6.5 to give it a try, I'll be the guinea pig for this one. Grafs added it to their list of powders so I took the plunge. The powder doesn't seem to be very popular, so maybe I won't have to wait very long for it to ship.
It's a risk but if it pays off we just might have a new option for blackout powder
Cheers,
TTF

[r.tenorio671]

I just backordered 2 cans of the Nobel Sport Ba6 1/2 or Ba6.5 to give it a try, I'll be the guinea pig for this one. Grafs added it to their list of powders so I took the plunge. The powder doesn't seem to be very popular, so maybe I won't have to wait very long for it to ship.
It's a risk but if it pays off we just might have a new option for blackout powder
Cheers,
TTF

Looking forward to your testing results.

[tXr]

I just backordered 2 cans of the Nobel Sport Ba6 1/2 or Ba6.5 to give it a try, I'll be the guinea pig for this one. Grafs added it to their list of powders so I took the plunge. The powder doesn't seem to be very popular, so maybe I won't have to wait very long for it to ship.
It's a risk but if it pays off we just might have a new option for blackout powder
Cheers,
TTF

That is the only powder that appears useful for the 300blk and other small rounds. Cant wait to hear your results.

My only concern with it being French made is that if a SHTF situation occurred the powder would simply shoot a white flag out the muzzle............LOL

[USBP379]

My only concern with it being French made is that if a SHTF situation occurred the powder would simply shoot a white flag out the muzzle............LOL

Didn't the French invent smokeless powder?

[zpat]

I finally got around to trying the BA 6 1/2. I had high hopes for this powder, seeing as its listed as equivalent to H110. First, let me say that I think it burns faster than H110, like N110 does. In fact, the closest powder it is comparable to is N110 IMO, which just in itself would be a great thing because N110 performs brilliantly in 300BLK, imo. BUT, and you knew that was coming, they made this powder without enough density for our small cases, and it does burn a bit faster than N110. Those two issues make it unsuitable for us. If you still want to try, I'll give you some starting loads and tell you where you'll max out in terms of space in the case:

For Vmax 110gr, seated at 2.130" COL, 18gr was the minimum necessary to cycle my Noveske 10.2". At 17gr it would eject okay but not load, at 17.5gr it would be 50/50. Unfortunately, as you'll see if you proceed, 18gr will fill that powder all the way to the top of the case. So to get a Vmax to seat without compression, I had to pour slow. I went all the way to 19.5gr which was using a 12" drop tube funnel + compressing, I might be able to squeeze 20gr in there if I was to spend 15 mins per case filling. Unfortunately, 19.5gr only produced 1811fps with the Vmax out of a 10.2" barrel. I get between 2000-2200 with the usual suspects H110, N110, LilGun, 1680, etc. and it doesn't require me to use a drop tube + compress the powder. I did not test accuracy because I ruled this out as a contender.

For a 150gr Hrn FMJ, seated at 2.150" COL, 16gr was the minimum necessary to cycle my Noveske 10.2". At 15 it would eject okay but not load, at 15.5gr it would be about 60/40. I went up to 19gr with this, started using the drop tube around 17gr. 19gr was very difficult to achieve, took me a lot of time per case to get that much powder in and still seat the bullet. At 19gr I got 1670fps. Interestingly, I also saw some signs of pressure here with some lightly cratered primers and some extremely slight ejector marks. I started to pick up the slightest hints of pressure at 18gr. Given my experience with pressure signs 20gr would likely be the max, but there is no way you could ever get to that unless you changed the COL, in which case the velocity drops anyways, as will the pressure. While I do not shoot 150gr (non-subsonics) from my 10.2", I do test them when load building, and the normal suspects get in the very high 1700s and throughout the 1800s FPS, so this just won't cut it compared to the regular guys especially given all the work you have to do just to squeeze a meager 1670fps.

Since I ran my various ladders up from bullets being stuck in the barrel all the way up to the numbers I posted (since I had literally no data to start with as they don't post for anything related to 300BLK and Quickloads doesn't have BA 6 1/2), I did check subsonic 150gr FMJs, which I use as a plinking round with my cans sometimes. It was a no-go as well.

However, there is hope for this as a subsonic load for the 220grs. I ran out of time to test that, but will do it next range visit. I expect it will do okay at cycling 220gr pills at subsonic levels. It also has the benefit of being a reasonably quiet powder, wasn't dirty AND it isn't dense, so it fills up the case nicely, always a concern with reduced charge loads. If it doesn't work for subs I'm going to be using this stuff in my 357 and 44 loads I suppose. It'll probably do nicely for some reduced charge loads there. Not cowboy level, but not rip your hand off level either.

From my research, this was really the only possible contender from Vectan in the 300BLK burn range. Bummer it doesn't work well.

cheers

[TreeTopFlier]

zpat, you just saved me a bunch of money and hasmat fees...Thanks! Ive had this on order with Grafs for months now...for whatever reason when it came in stock they didn't call me like they usually do. I saw it was in stock but have been dragging my feet...busy with other things.

Anyway, great job on the analysis. Too bad the supersonic loads are not going to work...sounds like it has some promise for the subs though.
I agree that it was the only powder that showed promise for supers in their lineup.
TTF

[zpat]

Good news: Not only does the BA 6 1/2 work making subsonics for my 10.2" Noveske, but it also worked in my 8.2" & 16", and although they are all Noveske, they are currently all with different chamberings. They are as different from each other as a totally different mfgs gun, that's how widely those chamberings have varied. I'm actually sending 2/3 up to Oregon to get them all on the same most updated chambering, but that's a discussion for another topic.

The BA 6 1/2 is also very clean, quiet AND fills the case to the absolute limit for the 8 & 10" barrel loads (which also happened to work for my 16" and stay subsonic, but I prefer to make a specific load per barrel length). That usually means you'll get phenomenal velocity consistency, and was just the case here: my SD was 3 for a group of 5 220s. That's tied with A1680 for the best SD I've ever recorded for a group of 5-220gr subs from my 10.2" (out of testing over 18 different powders). And the accuracy seems to be very good from the limited testing I did which was only at 50 yards because I was just concerned with shot placement (drop), velocity, cycling and sound.

All of these tests were done WITHOUT my can, weather was about 80 F.

Personally, I've been on a quest to find a subsonic replacement for A1680. While 1680 is great for reliable subsonic shooting, and great with the heavier weight 300blk pills (which I don't shoot), it is very loud and reasonably dirty in most of my guns. The logical thing to do is to go with the faster powders to get less noise, but the problem there is multifaceted: case volume, cycling + lack of load data. This just might be the best possible one--we'll see, as I have a lot more testing to do in order to make that determination. FWIW: I've found *much* quieter powders than this but they won't cycle or even come close to cycling, which always makes me think how nice it must be to have a single shot/bolt/lever/whatever 300BLK... just for the novelty really since they don't fit the bill at all for what I do with my 300BLK guns, but hell, 90% of the guns I own weren't bought for any practical purpose, as much as I tried to convince my wife of that, and even myself I suppose.

[polizei1]

Curious, what was your charge and was it compressed? What OAL are you loading the 220's at and what bullets are they?