Quickload Question

[Velocity]

dellet

Thank you for taking interest and helping. I was just concerned about the pressure I saw for that 180 SST load and your right about going 10% lower than max and work up. I did the 10% which went from 19.3 gr. to 17.4 gr. and here are the results,

HDY 9th COL 2.210" - QL 103,507 psi - 126%
HDY 11th COL 2.110" - QL 66,698 psi - 111.5%
Mag length COL 2.260" - QL 57,260 psi - 105.5%

everything is over pressure according to SAMMI - 55,000 psi for the 300 Blackout.

Let's do a Quickload what if.
You said "Looks like Quickload used data from a hot lot of 1680, but that’s why they give you ways to adjust the burn rate of the powders".

I think the double-base spherical powder lot used was not a hot lot but the kernels were larger than current lots, hence, the larger volume of Fill/LR %.

You said "but that’s why they give you ways to adjust the burn rate of the powders".

So, if I adjust their Burn Rate numbers to get what I want how does that fix the problem of Load Density if their powder lot had a larger kernel size compared to current lots? I wonder when Accurate 1680 was entered in Quickload and if the data has ever been updated.

I'm want learn how Quickload operates from a human not an 18 page scientific manual and I'm definitely not trying to bust anyone's balls. I'm just doing something I barely did in school "Ask Questions".

Would the above numbers being at 10% of max be safe for someone without Quickload?

Vel

[dellet]

dellet

Thank you for taking interest and helping. I was just concerned about the pressure I saw for that 180 SST load and your right about going 10% lower than max and work up. I did the 10% which went from 19.3 gr. to 17.4 gr. and here are the results,

HDY 9th COL 2.210" at 103,507 psi - 126%
HDY 11th COL 2.110" at 66,698 psi - 111.5%
Mag COL 2.260" at 57,260 psi - 105.5%

everything is over pressure according to SAMMI - 55,000 psi for the 300 Blackout.

Let's do a Quickload what if.
You said "Looks like Quickload used data from a hot lot of 1680, but that’s why they give you ways to adjust the burn rate of the powders".

I think the double-base spherical powder lot used was not a hot lot but the kernels were larger than current lots, hence, the larger volume of Fill/LR %.

You said "but that’s why they give you ways to adjust the burn rate of the powders".

So, if I adjust their Burn Rate numbers to get what I want how does that fix the problem of Load Density if their powder lot had a larger kernel size compared to current lots? I wonder when Accurate 1680 was entered in Quickload and if the data has ever been updated.

I'm want learn how Quickload operates from a human not an 18 page scientific manual and I'm definitely not trying to bust anyone's balls. I'm just doing something I barely did in school "Ask Questions".

Vel

Basically you have three choices highlighted
Accurate completely redesigned their powder
Hornady used two completely different pieces of brass and case volume.
Hornady made a misprint for COL in 11th edition.

Then the other factors are your inputs to Quickload.
It is absolutely impossible to enter a given load and the only input changed be seating depth, and end up with less pressure and less density when seating the bullet deeper.

When I run your numbers, it looks like you flipped the 9th and 11th outputs. If not, there is a problem with the software(maybe hardware) what ever makes the calculations. Because that output is simply wrong.

[dellet]

Some more questions, it appears you have both the 9th and 11th editions, or access. Did you look at both data sets? Are charge weights and velocities the same?
Everything the same except the COL?

That would an indication of a typo.

[Velocity]

I do have both manuals setting here in front of me. In post #8 I gave link to show the COL of 2.110" in the 11th Edition. The 9th Edition shows a COL of 2.211", so I wonder why was it dropped down .100"?

Charge weights and velocities are the same in both manuals. Here is a link to HORNADY HANDBOOK ERRATA:
https://www.hornady.com/support/load-da ... ook-errata

There are a few changes for the 9th Edition on page 380, 382 and 386, but nothing for the 180 gr. SST and the 11th Edition it has one change on page 471 for the 150 gr. SST's COL of 2.110" and according to the 11th Edition max is 22.0 gr. of Accurate 1680 making Quickload flip up a whopping 134,954 psi.

Vel

[dellet]

I think you have two different things going on.

Quickload uses models. That’s why there are ways to correct or change powder characteristics. Something’s off. If you plug in the same seated depth and use a Sierra 180 SMK,you get completely different pressures. That’s one indicator. Still high, but not ridiculous.

Powder and bullet manufacturers use actual data. In theory that should be much more accurate. They also can be off. Different size chambers, tighter or lose bores all will change your pressures.

Hornady is not helping matters. I think they screwed up the seating depth. You just can’t change seating depth .100” without changing the data. Compare all the other bullets. Did all the lengths change or just the two?

I use seated depth when talking load development and changing bullets because that is more important than overall length. The amount of bullet in then case is what changes the pressure. As long as the overall length keeps the bullet out of the rifling, it’s just a number.

If you’re comparing other 180 grain bullets using Quickload, make sure the amount of bullet in the case is the same. It will adjust overall length automatically.

Load a ladder starting at 16.5-17 grains up to 19 and compare velocities to both the book and Quickload. They will probably come closer to the book.

Then you’ll need to decide if you want to adjust the powder in Quickload.

[Velocity]

I'll put together some ladder loads and see where that leads.

I know Accurate 1680 performs better compressed but I didn't think you needed a "VISE" to get the bullet seated.

I beat this up enough. Oh, you said you use and adjust the seating depth not the COL, is there minimum depth or how do you know whats safe. I've always seated based on the ogive.

Velocity

[dellet]

I use seated depth to compare loads and data. Look at Sierra’s data. 180smk.

Same basic charge weight, 2.20” COL
Look at bullet lengths the SST is 1.356”, the SMK is 1.277”

So based on the Hornady 11 data 2.110”, Sierra has .180” less bullet in the case.
Hornady 9th data 2.210”, .080” less in the case in spite of being loaded .010” shorter.

Quickload will calculate these numbers.

For 1680 I drop the powder charge into a fired case, settle the powder, set the bullet on the powder, and measure base to ogive. Adjust my die to push the bullet .010” into the powder. Then confirm that length is not jamming into the lands. That’s my starting point.

My max loads are loosely based on 150, 168, and 175 bullets and are 22, 21, 20 grains.

For AR’s I load to touch, 2.255” or the bullet does not have enough bearing surfaces in the neck to hold.
Same for a bolt action, but magazine length is 2.4”

https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.c ... 052018.pdf

[Velocity]

dellet

I know what you mean about the bullet seating depth and their effect on pressure levels. I guess I need to go a little slower with Quickload.
I'll continue to reload my old fashion way. But, there is still that problem, no matter how many adjustments made to your seating depth.

I appreciate your patience.

Vel

[dellet]

I’m trying really hard not to say “you can’t trust Quickload”.

I have found discrepancies in both published manuals and like in this case places where Quickload predictions make no sense. That’s why the two golden rules are, start with low pressure and work up, and trust but verify. When Quickload disagrees with every manufacturer printing loads, the question falls on them. But that doesn’t mean I won’t approach that load with greater care.

As for this specific case, here is a quote from the FAQ section.
2012.

Q: Can 300 AAC Blackout make Major Power Factor in 3-gun competition?
A: Yes. A Sierra 175 MK loaded to 2.245 OAL in Remington brass and with a 7.5 primer with 20.0 grains of A1680 reached 1900 fps in a 16 inch test barrel. The pressure was below SAAMI max.
https://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewto ... 28&t=73274

That was actual pressure testing.

There was also quite the discussions around whether you could use 300 Blackout in Competitions and make “major power factor”. You might search that term in the forum.

Reading the first couple years of the forum, would be very enlightening. A lot of testing was being done up to around 2015-16. The cartridge is far more capable than the manuals and uboob would have you believe.

[Velocity]

That is a lot of compiled info.

One more Quickload question about primers. What do you adjust the Shot Start Pressure to for magnum primers. Default is set to 3625.

Vel