Annealing brass

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Pewpewpown
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Annealing brass

Post by Pewpewpown »

Should I annealing my brass that I cut from 223 cases? How important is annealing in general an when should it be done in the reloading process? I've done some research and I get mixed messages regarding what to do and how. Any input is appreciated

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30plinker
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by 30plinker »

Annealing is a heating/cooling process that softens the brass in the effected area. This helps with case longevity in relation to cracked necks, etc.

Hard part about 300bo is that it is so relatively short there isn't a lot of space between the "anneal here" and "don't anneal here you'll ruin stuff" and the bottom of the case.

Personally, feeding a bolt gun, I'm not planning on doing it. Then again, feedign a bolt gun I may be better off just buying 250 factory cases or remanufactured cases and not bother forming my own brass to start with.

Anyway, if you are good with a shortened case lifespan then skip it. Otherwise after cutting and either before or after initial forming.
BJK
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by BJK »

Lots of folks don't know how to properly anneal. You'll get advice like get the brass red hot. That's far too hot.

I use a 9x13 sheet cake pan and the brass has been decapped and cleaned and polished. Some water goes into the pan to keep the head cool, with 300BLK maybe 5/8" of water. Then the brass is placed in the pan head down and in the water. A torch flame is played over each shoulder and all one is looking for is the brass to change to a straw color. If it gets red hot the brass has been changed and not for the better. The straw color isn't easy to see but it can be seen. Be sure to clean and polish the brass to see the color change. If one wants to arrest the softening treat every case the same and give a count before flipping them over into the water. I've never done that I just want you to know that's it's an option.

Want to know what you're looking for? Check out some US military ammo. The annealing is plain as day on all of it that I've ever used.
imashooter2
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by imashooter2 »

I anneal them after cut and before forming. Debated a lot on the how and settled on molten salt bath. It was an inexpensive way to go for me as I already had a Lee pot in stores. This video is a bit of an advertisement for Ballistic Recreations equipment, but it provides a good overview of the process as well.
https://youtu.be/vwdTaDLz56Q
BJK
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by BJK »

That looks like a far superior method than the one I described from the days of the dinosaur.
imashooter2
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by imashooter2 »

Many, many cases have been annealed using those “prehistoric" methods. There are a number of machines that automate the basic torch approach ranging from homemade to high end commercial, and there are induction machines that are hard to beat on everything except cost.

I decided on salt based on my start up cost and the absolute heat control. The salt is set at 850°F and it can’t heat the brass any higher. I use a standard 1,000° dial casting thermometer in lieu of the thermocouple. The Lee pot thermostat holds a very consistent temperature. Depth of the "dunk" is set using the Ballistic Recreations fixture and stainless steel washers and I time the dunk using a metronome application on my phone.

I set the depth at .31 inch or just even with the last bend in the shoulder based on my cut length. Time I have settled on is 8 seconds which migrates the color change down about .4 inches total.

This is what worked for me. I had the pot and thermometer already as I have been casting for 45 years and stuff accumulates. If I had to buy the pot and thermometer, it would have been double the start up cost. I would still have gone with the thermometer over a thermocouple. I think it is more versatile. A friend with a few machine tools made his own fixture, modifying a simple design he found on Etsy (search CShooter Solutions).
Pewpewpown
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by Pewpewpown »

Thanks for all the replies! Seems like I dont need to worry about it too much since I have unlimited 223 brass from the range when the cops do their training. So brass wear isnt as much of an issue. Still, it is interesting and something I want to check out when I get more reloading experience. That salt pot method is appealing
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cwlongshot
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by cwlongshot »

YES!

ANY cases made by forming from another REQUIRE it! Its always helpful other wise and seldom a poor choice.

Here is how I do it.


https://rumble.com/vvi8g3-hows-and-whys ... cases.html
A Bolt, Single Shot and a few M$Rs

Join me on RUMBLE! Https://rumble.com/user/cwlongshot

https://youtube.com/channel/UCBOIIvlk30qD5a7xVLfmyfw

I PROUDLY SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT & OUR TROOPS
imashooter2
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by imashooter2 »

LOL! Quenching in the bathroom sink. Obviously a single guy. :lol:
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dellet
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Re: Annealing brass

Post by dellet »

I’m not picking on you, but using you’re question as an example that might help you in the future.

Just because there is no such thing as a stupid question, it doesn’t mean you can’t ask one stupidly. Everyone does it. For me there is this learning curve that at the start, I don’t know enough to ask an intelligent question on a subject, then gain enough knowledge to ask good questions. That generally leads to enough knowledge to start a conversation and the real learning begins.

The problem with annealing and asking for suggestions is, there are many ways and many results and they all end with “it works for me”.

First you need to define what type of results you are expecting and what problem you are expecting to solve. There’s a big difference in wanting to shoot 5” groups at 1000 yards or just keep the case from splitting while forming. What you expect from your tools.

I disagree that there is a need to anneal to cut and form from 223/5.56 brass. You just need to start with decent brass. U.S. military brass is annealed twice. It go’s far enough down the shoulder and body that Blackout cases will have annealed necks. I form from LC brass, do not anneal and the primer pockets give out long before a neck splits. Brass forms well enough to shoot +/- MOA loads for 12-15 firings.

If I’m chasing accuracy, every two- three firings.

If it’s 100 year old brass with an unknown number of firings, anneal before forming.

Forming a wildcat or obsolete cartridge that has multiple steps, i anneal as often as between every step.

Some of the antiques I shoot, the brass gets annealed randomly. I don’t resize the brass until it’s hard to remove from the chamber, that’s when it gets annealed. I have two pieces of brass that have well over 300 firings each since they were last annealed. Not uncommon to use one piece to shoot a 20 or 100 round match plus sighters. That brass in only shot in one barrel and is indexed so it is shot in the same spot in the chamber every time.

Not trying to confuse you, but I can give 5 different answers to your one question.

But in general, I’d have to agree with CW, it always, helps, and before forming always.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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