190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

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Ape Factory
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by Ape Factory »

I almost pulled the trigger on a complete 300 blackout upper from POF, a 415 piston with a 10.5" barrel, as it was on sale for about $300 off the normal price but I managed to stay strong, LOL. Gun acquisition syndrome is real (GAS).

I figured I'd try swapping in the other barrel, the Faxon, and see if I could get it to function. I also decided to ditch the Superlative Arms gas block and am going with a JP adjustable clamp-on. Will be easier to adjust and I won't be wondering if I went too far and am in bleed off mode.

The Faxon barrel is a replacement they sent for the original, a 10.5" match grade. The first functioned with everything I threw at it except for the Sub X rounds, cycled everything, always locked the bolt back. The feed ramps on the new one are not quite as steep (see pic).

After installing the barrel in the V-Seven upper (it's an interference fit so you'll need to freeze the barrel and heat the upper receiver) I ran a go and no go gauge, pulled the pin on the BCG, reinstalled it and loaded a single Sub-x round into a Lancer 300 Blk mag after carefully measuring said round. I dropped the bolt. Success! It chambered. I ejected the round, measured it and there was no change in overall length. I'll head back out with all my test rounds and see what's what.

Here's a photo of the old and new barrels, side shot, barrel extension. New on left, old on right.
Image

I'd just gotten a supersonic round dialed in on the 8.5" so I'll have to go back and do that one all over. Good times.
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dellet
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by dellet »

Good to hear you have that sorted out.

I think you will like that bullet, now that it loads
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
Ape Factory
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by Ape Factory »

I'm not jumping the gun there yet ( :lol:) will have to wait and see how they all work out at the range first. I ended up selling off 300 bullets locally but I still have 400 left! Will likely try some of the Lehigh Defense 194gr. as well but those are big $$$.

Plan is to break in the new barrel with supers first then move on to testing subs. Still need to figure out which powder to go with, looking at Vihita Vouri as it seems to be a clean-burning powder but not a lot of reloading data out there.

I now have an 8.5" barrel I'm not sure what to do with (too late to return it), may build an ultra-compact for use with just supers. Another $1K out the window!
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dellet
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by dellet »

Hornady, Sierra, Vihtavouri in that order for load data.

N120 will be the most reliable, N105 the quietest but can be finicky. N110 in between. My favorite sub powders.

Keep in mind the velocity loss for the short barrel and don’t be afraid to start with a 1200 FPS load that was shot in a 16” barrel.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
Ape Factory
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by Ape Factory »

Success!

I went out today with the new Faxon barrel to break it in before trying to develop loads. I brought along a bunch of factory supers and a mag full of Hornady Sub_X, again factory loads. All worked flawlessly. I didn't mess with the gas, just left it wide open, which was a bit much with the supers but the subs functioned and locked the bolt back on an empty mag. Big sigh of relief and a big smile.

I picked up a small container of the VV120. I'd left my notes at home but pulled up the VV reloading app and settled on the VV120.

I'll try to reload a few subs with the VV and will either go back to the range tomorrow or Tuesday. I'll have sub-x test loads with CFE BLK and VV along with some leftover Lil Gun rounds. And full disclosure, I also discovered my gas key was coming loose. That's since been rectified with a Brownells gas key staking tool. So hoping that was the issue with excessive carbon with the CFE BLK and the non-cycling with the Lil Gun.

I didn't get to switch gas blocks as USPS has decided to take their sweet time in delivering it. I went to extreme lengths of anal retentiveness in reinstalling the Superlative Arms gas block along with a new gas tube. I actually purchased several, including a "high dollar" Lantac. In the end, the cheapest melanite gas tube had the best fit. I tweaked it until an empty carrier would slide on with nothing more than gravity.

Can't comment on groupings just yet. I'm not super happy with my Primary Arms 1-6X with a 300 blackout reticle. Doesn't seem to match up with supers/subs @ 50 yards like they claim and the reticle's main arrow is so thick that it's a little hard to place a shot at 100 consistently. Pretty sure it'll end up being an MOA or just above barrel once I get everything broken and dialed in.

One thing I did notice with the Hornady subs was a lot of copper residue. No clue what they use for powder in those rounds.
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dellet
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by dellet »

Sadly the BDC reticles for Blackout basically suck, If you don’t shoot something close to what they are calibrated for. Most are calibrated for a 16” barrel so supers from an 8” is basically good luck. Subs at least the velocity is close, but bullet BC past 50 yards can be a huge difference.

Closing your gas block will help with debris from subs, but bottom line with CFE is if you want clean, throw it in the garbage or use it for supers. You will notice a significant difference with N120 and Lil’gun. Hopefully the gas key helps with the Lil’gun.

I think the green you are seeing is either an anti copper fouler or flash suppressant, but not sure. Hard to know what factory ammo has for powder unless they publish it.

Shooting a self loader is definitely more fun to shoot when the self load :P
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
csteel89
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by csteel89 »

Hello everyone! OP here. I apologize for disappearing; I did not intend to be a "drive by poster", but it's been one thing after the other the past few months.

Y'all have shared some great info here on several different things to look into. Hopefully I will find time to start working at the reloading bench soon. As far as the possible culprits suggested, I think powder choice and seating depth may be the most likely. Since this has occurred with both of the most common 300BLK-specific magazines on the market (PMAG 300BLK and Lancer EMAG 300BLK), I feel like that isn't the problem. My gut tells me the first thing I need to do is try a powder that is more geared toward subsonic use; H110 may burn a little fast (I think - correct me if I'm wrong).

I'll try to get back on here a little sooner share the progress.
promptcritical
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by promptcritical »

Ape Factory wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:03 am Success!

I went out today with the new Faxon barrel to break it in before trying to develop loads. I brought along a bunch of factory supers and a mag full of Hornady Sub_X, again factory loads. All worked flawlessly. I didn't mess with the gas, just left it wide open, which was a bit much with the supers but the subs functioned and locked the bolt back on an empty mag. Big sigh of relief and a big smile.

snip

One thing I did notice with the Hornady subs was a lot of copper residue. No clue what they use for powder in those rounds.
Image
I had that "residue" problem with my 300 BLK build. One of my go-to guys suggested it was brass from a timing issue and recommended I hone the barrel. After honing the barrel, no more residue. Glad that was fixed, but I expected better from a premium barrel manufacturer.

I still can't get the Sub-X rounds to feed as they hang exactly like the OP stated. Arrrggg.

Anyone have any subsonic ammo suggestions?
Ape Factory
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by Ape Factory »

Lehigh Defense. They make great but expensive subsonic rounds.

I'm back to square one, rounds not loading, even at factory length. I can drop the bolt and they'll load, bolt will lock back on empty but it won't cycle the next round. Only difference is the barrel is now broken in and "dirty" compared to new. Tried three different mags, three different makes. Tried two different lowers. EVERY other type of cartridge works just fine. Loaded up some Berry's 200gr. subs and they fed, no issues. Same for supers, Hornady 110gr. VMAX.

Here's a photo of one of the cartridges that I loaded and failed to feed. You can see how beat up the nose is. Overall it gets a whole lot closer to feeding into the chamber but is still, cocked, nose up, with the bolt 3/4 closed. I didn't try a factory round after as I forgot to bring a few.

Image
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dellet
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Re: 190 SUB-X Feeding Issues

Post by dellet »

Ape Factory wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:31 pm Lehigh Defense. They make great but expensive subsonic rounds.

I'm back to square one, rounds not loading, even at factory length. I can drop the bolt and they'll load, bolt will lock back on empty but it won't cycle the next round. Only difference is the barrel is now broken in and "dirty" compared to new. Tried three different mags, three different makes. Tried two different lowers. EVERY other type of cartridge works just fine. Loaded up some Berry's 200gr. subs and they fed, no issues. Same for supers, Hornady 110gr. VMAX.

Here's a photo of one of the cartridges that I loaded and failed to feed. You can see how beat up the nose is. Overall it gets a whole lot closer to feeding into the chamber but is still, cocked, nose up, with the bolt 3/4 closed. I didn't try a factory round after as I forgot to bring a few.
A couple thoughts, have you tried
a regular 223 magazine?
Tapping the magazine to get all the rounds to shift forward?
If you’re still using CFE BLK, just stop. It’s that dirty. You can always go back, but until you sort out the feeding issue use a powder that you can count on.

When the round jams, is the bolt behind the round and pushing on the base, I am wondering where that big gouge in the case in the picture came from. Looks like it came from rear to front like the bolt lugs are hitting it.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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