Hi all, new here. I'm hoping to get some insights on an issue I'm having with some subsonic loads. The load spec is this:
Berry's 220gr plated spire point
Starline brass
12.3gr CFE BLK
CCI 450 primers
COAL 2.11"
Firearm used is a Sig MCX 9" bbl 1:5 twist w/DA Sandman S suppressor.
The issue I'm having is with accuracy. I zeroed the weapon with some 125gr supersonic loads and they consistently hold acceptable groups (1"@ 50 yards, so 2 MOA or so). However when I switch to the subsonic loads, I can't hit the broad side of a barn, even at 50 yards. The rounds consistently impact WAY left of point of aim, like 4-6" left or more at 50 yards. Even then they don't hold any discernible groups - the impacts are all over the place. I don't see any evidence of the rounds tumbling as all the impacts I do observe are perfect .30 cal holes, the weapon cycles flawlessly, and the velocities chrono within reason (950-1000 fps) for subsonic loads.
At some point I'm going to try some different 220 grain projectiles like SMKs or even HDY 220 interlocks. However in the meantime I am hoping to get some input as to what my issue might be. Does anyone have any thoughts? I appreciate the input in advance.
Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade, bamachem
-
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:30 am
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Change powders
It might get better if you seat the bullet deeper and add powder, but I'm not sure I would spend much time with what you have.
1680 is just as reliable, Shooters World Blackout, 4227, H110/296 all will have better results than CFE. As would a slingshot or just throwing the bullets.
It might get better if you seat the bullet deeper and add powder, but I'm not sure I would spend much time with what you have.
1680 is just as reliable, Shooters World Blackout, 4227, H110/296 all will have better results than CFE. As would a slingshot or just throwing the bullets.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
-
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:30 am
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Ha! That's true, I agree, CFE Blk I have found to be a disappointment. I bought a pound this summer because I thought it was all the rage for 300 blk but I haven't been impressed with it.
I should have mentioned in the original post that I also have this problem with H110. I've found that I like H110 for 300blk for both supers and subs (at least in my gun), but for some odd reason I have the same problem with the subs flying off to the left when using H110. I have heard that 1680 is good for subs, so I may try to get my hands on a pound of that.
You don't think it has anything to do with the cheap, plated bullets? Nothing against Berry's, but maybe these bullets don't like the short barrel/fast twist? I'll admit I'm speculating.
Thanks for the response!
I should have mentioned in the original post that I also have this problem with H110. I've found that I like H110 for 300blk for both supers and subs (at least in my gun), but for some odd reason I have the same problem with the subs flying off to the left when using H110. I have heard that 1680 is good for subs, so I may try to get my hands on a pound of that.
You don't think it has anything to do with the cheap, plated bullets? Nothing against Berry's, but maybe these bullets don't like the short barrel/fast twist? I'll admit I'm speculating.
Thanks for the response!
- plant.one
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 6823
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:31 pm
- Location: Oakland County, MI
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
whats the diameter of those berries? have you checked random samplings for consistency?
are you using a VLD chamfer and expanding the case mouth to seat them? or just loading them like a regular jacketed projectile?
are you using a VLD chamfer and expanding the case mouth to seat them? or just loading them like a regular jacketed projectile?
Reloading info shared is based on experiences w/ my guns. Be safe and work up your loads from published data. Web data may not be accurate/safe.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
I size the my cast bullets to 0.310" and expand the neck to 0.309". (oh, 0.309" the same as in a 7.62x39 die, Hmmm)
I wouldn't be surprised if those plated bullets are nearer to 0.3085" and the oem expander was 0.306".
Kind of like shooting a 22LR down a 12ga barrel.
I size and expand that big because I pulled my hair out with those the same accuracy problems. I've gotten plated bullets to shoot ok in a pistol pistols, but it just seems my barrels always run big in rifle pistols and rifle rifles. But that's me.
I wouldn't be surprised if those plated bullets are nearer to 0.3085" and the oem expander was 0.306".
Kind of like shooting a 22LR down a 12ga barrel.
I size and expand that big because I pulled my hair out with those the same accuracy problems. I've gotten plated bullets to shoot ok in a pistol pistols, but it just seems my barrels always run big in rifle pistols and rifle rifles. But that's me.
-
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:30 am
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Interesting, thanks for the replies. I have just been loading these like traditional FMJ bullets and I haven't checked the diameter with my caliper (that's now kind of a "duh!" moment for me ). That may be the issue because the 125gn Speer TMJ-HP rounds seem to fly pretty straight, all other variables being the same (except the charge of course).
I'm going to try and get my hands on some jacketed 208s or 220s like A-Max's or SMKs. They're more expensive obviously, but if I can't hit anything with the cheap ones, the price is moot!
Thanks guys.
I'm going to try and get my hands on some jacketed 208s or 220s like A-Max's or SMKs. They're more expensive obviously, but if I can't hit anything with the cheap ones, the price is moot!
Thanks guys.
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Again the answer may just be a different powder.
For a bullet to seal the bore, it needs enough pressure pushing it to expand the base of the bullet. CFE does not have it. it's terrible at sub sonic velocities.
If you can seat the bullet deep enough to compress the powder you have a fighting chance, if not, move on.
If you have a faster powder, try that before giving up on the Berry's
For a bullet to seal the bore, it needs enough pressure pushing it to expand the base of the bullet. CFE does not have it. it's terrible at sub sonic velocities.
If you can seat the bullet deep enough to compress the powder you have a fighting chance, if not, move on.
If you have a faster powder, try that before giving up on the Berry's
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Just started loading 300 blk, but have had good luck so far with Accurate #11FS and 220 gr Berry's. Shoots about 2 moa at 50 yards with a 1x optic and mediocre eyes. POI was ~6" lower than 150 gr supers used to zero, but windage was the same.
Sig Brass (new, full length sized)
220 gr Berry's
OAL 2.240"
CCI 400 primers
9.9 - 10.2 gr AA#11FS
1034 - 1051 fps avg, SDs in low teens
10" 1:7 ballistic advantage barrel unsuppressed (nomad-30 still in jail)
Starline brass is about 10 gr heavier than the Sig and with 10.2 gr of 11FS was 1105 fps with similar groups. Will be backing it down a bit with the starline.
Just noticed that Berry's website says "THESE BULLETS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR BARRELS WITH A FASTER TWIST RATE THAN 1:7"
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/300-a ... 9-220gr-sp
Maybe they don't like the 1:5 twist barrel?
Sig Brass (new, full length sized)
220 gr Berry's
OAL 2.240"
CCI 400 primers
9.9 - 10.2 gr AA#11FS
1034 - 1051 fps avg, SDs in low teens
10" 1:7 ballistic advantage barrel unsuppressed (nomad-30 still in jail)
Starline brass is about 10 gr heavier than the Sig and with 10.2 gr of 11FS was 1105 fps with similar groups. Will be backing it down a bit with the starline.
Just noticed that Berry's website says "THESE BULLETS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR BARRELS WITH A FASTER TWIST RATE THAN 1:7"
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/300-a ... 9-220gr-sp
Maybe they don't like the 1:5 twist barrel?
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
I also found CFE BLK disappointing with heavy subs. 1680 , H110 both give me decent results to in my Bolt gun and AR's.
-
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:30 am
Re: Problems w/Berry's 220gr subs
Ahhh - I must have missed that advisory on Berry's website. I'll bet that my gun's faster twist (1:5) has something to do with it. That's disappointing. Regarding the powder, I've come to the same conclusion most of y'all have about CFE BLK, which is to say I don't care for it. I don't think I'll be buying anymore. I have a decent amount of H110 so I'll keep using that, but also try A1680 and AA 11FS.IdaCo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:11 pm Just started loading 300 blk, but have had good luck so far with Accurate #11FS and 220 gr Berry's. Shoots about 2 moa at 50 yards with a 1x optic and mediocre eyes. POI was ~6" lower than 150 gr supers used to zero, but windage was the same.
Sig Brass (new, full length sized)
220 gr Berry's
OAL 2.240"
CCI 400 primers
9.9 - 10.2 gr AA#11FS
1034 - 1051 fps avg, SDs in low teens
10" 1:7 ballistic advantage barrel unsuppressed (nomad-30 still in jail)
Starline brass is about 10 gr heavier than the Sig and with 10.2 gr of 11FS was 1105 fps with similar groups. Will be backing it down a bit with the starline.
Just noticed that Berry's website says "THESE BULLETS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR BARRELS WITH A FASTER TWIST RATE THAN 1:7"
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/300-a ... 9-220gr-sp
Maybe they don't like the 1:5 twist barrel?
I have also ordered a Lee factory crimp die in order to try and get a more solid crimp with the 300blk rounds, both subs and supers. Hopefully that will help with more consistent ignition and pressures.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 175 guests