New Build - couple Wilson Combat barrel spec questions

[FartinSpartan]

Hi everyone,

Short version:
I'm looking for the "port distance" from extension to center of gas port on Wilson Combat 11.3" and 16.2" Recon 300 Blackout stainless barrels, and a couple other things -- stock gas port size, and whether the gas journal has machined finish or media blasted finish.

'MORE DETAILS'
I had asked about Rosco Manufacturing previously but after some further reading here and elsewhere, there seems to be a consensus of really good accuracy with Wilson Combat 300 Blackout barrels.

I'm still wanting to go forward with a piston setup. Why? Someone I listen to was just talking again today about how he put over 5,000 rounds through his suppressed 300 blackout piston AR over a period of about 2-1/2 years without cleaning it at all, just 200-500 rounds per shooting session then straight back into the safe, take it back out when shooting it again. He was trying to find out how many rounds it would take before he had to clean it because of a jam, crud, etc. To demonstrate how much more reliable piston-driven is vs. DI, the way he builds his. Even after 5,000 rounds he hadn't had a jam or failure and ended up just cleaning it for the heck of it versus (in his experience) having to clean a DI suppressed AR after about 150 rounds.

(and its a really long wait and expensive to get one of his, plus I am trying to gain the hands-on experience myself so *I* can work on my own stuff)

Anyway, not really looking to debate DI vs. Piston. What I AM looking for is for anyone with 16.2" or 11.3" stainless Wilson Combat 300 Blackout barrels' feedback on a couple questions. I called Wilson Combat customer service today today and got to speak with someone, but they were unable to answer any of these questions:

1. What is the "port length" of the barrel? ie, exact measurement from front face of barrel extension to center of the gas port? (because I plan to use a Superlative Arms kit and some have reported problems bending their piston rod because the distance to the gas port was shorter than it should have been for a pistol length gas system). All their barrel schematic for the 16.2" recon fluted (and others I looked at) says is Pistol Length Gas but doesn't give exact numbers. Superlative Arms says this distance needs to be 3.970" for their pistol length piston rod to be a good fit/function.

They were unable to answer this question (it isn't on their barrel diagram), he said they did not have access to that information but if I sent it as an email they may be able to find someone there who knows that and get back to me....

He was able to find the gas tube length that works is 6.625". Not quite what I'm looking for...

2. What gas port diameter do the stainless 11.3 and 16.2" (Recon fluted) barrels come with? He didn't know.


3. Do the gas block journals on currently-available Wilson Combat 11.3" or 16.2" Recon barrels have the same media blasted finish as the rest of the barrel has or are they machine/polished instead? (because I found a post here stating its better to not have that media blasted finish on the gas journal)

Again, they didn't know any more than you can see yourself looking at the pictures of their stainless 300 blackout barrels on their website. Seems to be a mixed bag of media-blasted finish and machined finish (not blasted). But he was not certain how reliable their pictures were either.

So.... I'm hoping someone with one of these barrels might know. They seem to be very well spoken of for barrel quality, but if I can't get at least (and especially) question #1 answered, I think I'm probably going to need to try other high-quality stainless 300 blackout barrel mfgrs til I can find one that can at least answer my question. PS: Reason I'm trying to stick with stainless barrel mfgrs is in case I end up needing to open up the gas port to get reliable suppressed sub cycling/hold-open. I'll be using Accurate 1680 powder, that comes recommended for good cycling/BHO for piston-driven 300 Blackout with subs and a can. I'm also stocking up on H110 for supersonic and possibly experimentation for subsonic as well.

If anybody with Wilson Combat barrels is able to answer especially #1 above, I'd really love to hear the measurement! I will email them also to try to find out, maybe someone there will answer and if they do I will post what they tell me.

Or - if someone with specific knowledge of a brand of a match-grade barrel in the 10" - 11.5" range, or 16", that "just works", and no need to open the port up further to get reliable cycling of subsonic rounds with a suppressor, I'd like to hear about that too. I am open to filing a Form 1 application for an SBR if it comes down to it. (already waiting on 2 tax stamps for suppressors)

Thanks!
FartinSpartan

[dellet]

Normally I would tell you to get the information required from Superlative, but a quick check of their website still says their system is incompatible with low pressure 300 Blackout loads.

Port size will likely be too small on any decent barrel out there. The cheaper ones are more likely to have a max size port of .125” for everything. Any decent barrel manufacturer will have different sizes for different barrel lengths. Drilling one out is easy if needed.

All that said, here’s what I would do.
https://www.x-caliber.net/configure-you ... piston-kit

I think I have had at least 10 of there barrels. Always arrived exactly as ordered.

[FartinSpartan]

Thanks Dellet. Yep I have seen that on Superlative's site also. And "coming soon, a 300 blackout version" (for quite some time now)

I'd be expecting to need to enlarge the gas port if I went with a Wilson.

X-Caliber.net wow, interesting! Will look at this!

Have a couple other birds to kill with one stone as well if possible. It would be really nice if I didn't have to pull/swap the buffer and spring (and more stuff that some people use) out of the lower if I wanted to put a 5.56 upper on.

Thank you for this info I will look them over. Seems like maybe I had seen someone mention xcaliber in some context here but not sure now what it was.

[FartinSpartan]

Ah, yes, I did see this site the other day come to think of it. Don't think I saw that they make barrels specifically for Superlative piston kits though.

Shazam!? (hope so!)

Thanks!

[FartinSpartan]

hmm... am seeing many really good reports about X-Caliber but also a number of really bad ones. twist rate wrong (not what requested), bores off center, barrel not straight, etc. Stuff posted here:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/th ... s.6536161/

And to be honest I kind of have a problem with, if you are going to force me to buy a specific brand of bolt to headspace my barrel to or charge me extra to use a bolt *I* send you, and make me pay $100 for the RCA bolt when I can get very high quality (Toolcraft) entire 5.56 BCG's with a DLC coating on them for $100, the least they could do is include the $#!%@!! firing pin and cam pin with the bolt when you're payin' $100 for it.

I understand they are trying to avoid wasting time and work stoppage when a customer sends them a crummy bolt but sheez....

But back to the barrels.... So it sounds like if you get a good one, you'll get a REALLY good one, but you might also get a bad one. If I have to check behind someone to verify a bunch of different things I really shouldn't have to worry about when I pay that much for a barrel.....

I don't mind paying for quality (I generally do) but I'm going to really have to think about whether I want to roll the dice here.

I can appreciate the notion of just buying a barrel that they will set the gas port for you based on type of buffer/spring you're using and dimple the barrel perfectly for a Superlative piston kit, etc. All of that is very appealing for a first timer trying to build a custom piston rifle. I will call Superlative Arms and see what they have to say about gas port length etc.

Dellet thanks for the recommendation though, I saw where you mentioned your experience with them (with about 10 barrels) has been good every time. I'll have to think about this before I jump.

[FartinSpartan]

So, I spoke with Dan at Superlative Arms to get some ideas.

In a nutshell he recommended sending Superlative Arms' diagram showing a necessary gas port length at 3.970" to Wilson Combat by email and ask them if their barrels will match this.

We also talked about various other stuff, clamp-on vs. set screw, etc. Great conversation. But the last thing I asked him was, in his experience if there was a brand or two or three of barrels he knows for sure are putting the gas port in the right place and could otherwise recommend them, who would they be?

He mentioned KAK Industry, he knew of their 5.56 barrels not having any problems with bending the piston rod.

So I did some looking and it turns out, with at least a couple of them I've looked at, that their gas ports come from KAK at .125". At least, that seems to be the case from the reviews when they were using Green Mountain blanks. They have recently switched over to making their own blanks. It probably hasn't changed but will check with them.

Their value line barrels (nitride finish) don't have dimples, and the non-value-line (stainless) ones are pre-dimpled, but for KAK gas blocks. I already have a BRD Engineering dimpling jig for Superlative Arms size gas block dimples, and if the gas port is already .125" then I doubt I'll need to worry about opening it up any further (Dan says their piston block's port is .125 anyway so I don't see how a >.125" port on the barrel gets me anything) - and I can be happy with a Nitrided finish.

I already have carbide bits to do the dimpling too.

May just give KAK a try.

[FartinSpartan]

Chris at KAK responded back that their 8.5" and 10.5" value line 300blk barrels have .099" gas ports. The comments I saw talking about .125" are probably reflective of older barrels. Can always drill em out larger if need be.

Anyway since KAK is at least willing to talk dimensions I will confirm with them they are still locating their gas port at 3.970" gas port length Superlative Arms states is necessary.

KAK says it is about 3.93" to the center of their gas port, and about 3.970" to the muzzle end of the port.

Superlative Arms is still not supporting 300 Blackout customers and no ETA on when they will start working on their "coming soon 300 Blackout solution" again. I couldn't even talk them into making me a custom length piston rod for a barrel I already have. He did say that their 300 blackout piston solution is going to be a complete upper with barrel and all made specifically to work for 300 blackout.

*shrug*

Guess I'll keep shopping

[FartinSpartan]

So in essence, the tech guy at KAK said the center of their gas port is located about .040" back from where Superlative says it has to be. Which sounds to me like a no go situation. Maybe something changed, I don't know.

However I just got off the phone with Ballistic Advantage and 3.970" is the EXACT dimension they manufacture ALL of their 300 Blackout barrels to.

Their modern series barrels do not come with gas blocks already pinned on. So I think I just found the barrel brand for my piston project.

[FartinSpartan]

So brands of barrel being discussed here has changed a couple times now.

I've come up a with a plan for parts now to build a piston 300 blk upper after researching compatibility but will make a separate topic for it when the time is right.

Quick summary though:

Superlative Arms Clamp-on piston kit because I am reading bad things about set-screw gas blocks on piston guns in the long run and I don't really want to pin one to the barrel.
BCM MCMR handguard - because it can accomodate the SA clamp-on piston kit's gas block and mates well with the upper receiver I'll be using. Too bad the handguards made by same co. as the upper receiver won't, but oh well.
Ballistic Advantage Modern Series barrel - $110 or less for any Modern Series 300 Blk barrel at my go-to vendor and sub-moa guarantee

I'm sure the BA Modern Series barrels aren't as nice as a well-made X-Caliber one, but BA is widely spoken well of and unlike everyone else I've contacted, they took the few minutes to get me the info I needed to answer my questions about dimensions, they were the right dimensions, and they didn't fear that giving me that info would result in a wave of Chinese knock-offs as one company's rep told me in the last week (a rather pathetic excuse to not help me out). So BA gets my business. Just can't/won't risk spending hundreds of $ and waiting several months for something that may be poorly made or QA'd when this has apparently happened to several people in the last few years. This will be a 300 yards or less weapon.

Will open a topic up sometime when I am getting there with it. Will do whatever it takes opening up the gas port to so I can keep ONE buffer/spring setup in this lower. It's gonna be an adjustable gas block so if I have to open the port up bigger to get good sub cycling with my can on it and click it down some to fix some overgassing on supersonics, well, that's what the adjustable gas block is for.

[popper]

My pistol uses a KAK barrel, works great. It is a 10" 1:8 that I wanted. Their cheapy off-the-shelf model. XCaliber is good also.