Hello from Texas

[FartinSpartan]

Hello there from Texas!

I just found this forum searching for 300 Blackout related stuff. I'm about to step into the world of 300 Blackout and was really glad to find this forum.

I'm looking at building one with a 16" barrel (pistol gas). Preferably with a piston conversion kit for the cleaner receiver and BCG area (hopefully) although I do plan on running suppressed as well (waiting on a stamp) so I may or may not get to run all that clean. But I am looking for flexibility -- main purpose/plan is general home defense -- with (primarily) suppressed subsonic in mind for that but also want to be able to shoot supersonic with or without the can screwed on. As of now the Superlative Bleed-Off piston conversion kit is sounding most interesting.

Have experience handloading (other calibers) and am in process of buying dies, brass, etc. for 300 Blackout, but have lot of reading to do yet to try to settle on 1-2 powders to go with, which subsonic bullets, etc.

I'll avoid bombarding with questions right off the bat -- only so much $ I can spend right now anyway haha, I'm trying to plan carefully, research, etc. to reduce likelihood of making bad purchasing decisions. I think I'll probably get a lot of use from the search functions for a while.

There is ONE question that I'll ask about if I can't find any results for it about a certain brand of 300 Blackout barrel that seems to be made for versatility but will wait and see what I can find searching.

Thanks for having the forum here!

FartinSpartan

[BJK]

Welcome to the forum!

[ReadyAimDuck]

What makes you want to use subsonics supressed for home defense? Put a suppressor on a 16" barrel and walk around your house simulating what you would do in a defensive situation. If you're house is anything like mine you're going to realize real quick why I asked that question.

In my opinion, supersonics in a 16" barrel instead of supersonics in a 16" barrel with a suppressor are far superior for defensive purposes. No, you're not going to go deaf.

Subs are a lot of fun, don't get me wrong. But supersonics in a reliable configuration that is of a handy length to move around with is a far superior setup for almost all purposes that I can come up with.

[FartinSpartan]

What makes you want to use subsonics supressed for home defense? Put a suppressor on a 16" barrel and walk around your house simulating what you would do in a defensive situation. If you're house is anything like mine you're going to realize real quick why I asked that question.

In my opinion, supersonics in a 16" barrel instead of supersonics in a 16" barrel with a suppressor are far superior for defensive purposes. No, you're not going to go deaf.

Thanks ReadyAimDuck. Well that IS a good point and I have wondered about the practicality of it myself.

[BJK]

OK, another $.02 worth coming. You get it for free and it might be worth all of that price.

I agree with ReadyAimDuck, sorta, with changes.

Why a 16" barrel anyway? If you're contemplating a can use a barrel that the 300BLK was actually designed for, something in the 9"+ length and design the build for an over the barrel blast can to attenuate the blast and use supersonic ammo. If you don't want to pay the $200 tax for a SBR then build it as a handgun and when SBRs are removed from the NFA in a few years (fingers crossed) then put a stock on it. Build it right and with the can in place it'll still be shorter than a 16" barrel. The negative? The short barrel will give up some FPS, but you'll gain that back in handling. Don't put a can on it (?), maybe a blast forwarder instead and have a really short 300BLK for HD.

I've read of folks thinking subsonic ammo is the way to go, but lots of ft/lbs are tossed away and so is stopping power which begins to show up around 2000fps. Some subsonics will merely drill a hole and keep on going, drilling a tiny hole, and there you are waiting for bleed out which can take awhile. That can lead to lots of evil happening that you were trying to stop. IMO, subsonic ammo is not for HD if there is an option for supersonic+ velocity. Just handle the concussion in some way.

Just things to think about. It's your build and not mine.

[bangbangping]

Welcome. What part of the state are you in?

I tend to agree with BJK that shorter than 16" is better with a suppressor, but also that pistol gas is not needed if you do go that long. Personally, I like 11"-12" to gain a few FPS when shooting supers, but I've shot deer with 8" rifles that ended up plenty dead. If you're around the Houston area I'd be happy to take you to my range to let you try a few options. I don't have a 16" BLK at the moment but do have an 18" AR that the can will fit on.

[gds]

Just my opinion, but piston systems for a standard AR are a solution looking for a problem.

As a big proponent of subsonic hunting, my HD gun is a 16 inch barrel carbine gas loaded with 110gr Vmax.

[ReadyAimDuck]

OK, another $.02 worth coming. You get it for free and it might be worth all of that price.

I agree with ReadyAimDuck, sorta, with changes.

Why a 16" barrel anyway? If you're contemplating a can use a barrel that the 300BLK was actually designed for, something in the 9"+ length and design the build for an over the barrel blast can to attenuate the blast and use supersonic ammo. If you don't want to pay the $200 tax for a SBR then build it as a handgun and when SBRs are removed from the NFA in a few years (fingers crossed) then put a stock on it. Build it right and with the can in place it'll still be shorter than a 16" barrel. The negative? The short barrel will give up some FPS, but you'll gain that back in handling. Don't put a can on it (?), maybe a blast forwarder instead and have a really short 300BLK for HD.

I've read of folks thinking subsonic ammo is the way to go, but lots of ft/lbs are tossed away and so is stopping power which begins to show up around 2000fps. Some subsonics will merely drill a hole and keep on going, drilling a tiny hole, and there you are waiting for bleed out which can take awhile. That can lead to lots of evil happening that you were trying to stop. IMO, subsonic ammo is not for HD if there is an option for supersonic+ velocity. Just handle the concussion in some way.

Just things to think about. It's your build and not mine.

I like your point about going shorter if going suppressed. I would agree with that. What I would say though is that without being supressed, a blast forwarding device on a SBR inside the house isn't going to do anything to preserve your ears. If we're adding the length of that device, I would say we might as well just go with the 16" barrel and a thread protector which is going to reduce sound and blast better than the SBR with the blast forwarder, and give you the extra FPS.

[FartinSpartan]

Thanks everyone.

The idea/recommendation I got for subsonics with a can for indoor home defense is to avoid making those loud pops that usually happen otherwise when you pull the trigger since that will very negatively affect your (short term) hearing. Not to mention the long term hearing loss/damage. Hearing is something you are going to really want working if somebody is coming into your house in the middle of the night. I have shot rifles and pistols without ear pro before (outdoors) so I know what happens with both when they aren't suppressed. I do not have personal experience with shooting supersonic indoors without ear pro and have no desire to gain any.

Another presumption baked into the recommendation is that in the actual event of someone coming into your house, you are most likely not going to think about (or have time) to put your hearing protection on (and make sure everybody else in your home also has), even if it is dangling from the weapon you keep beside your bed.

As far as the 16" part... I believe the idea behind that part of the recommendation comes from a basis of having ONE weapon that is ready to meet modern common (and actual) home defense scenarios, rather than needing to switch weapons to something more appropriate for a bigger picture if you happen to find yourself in the middle of one.

There's more to this but I will spare everyone. I do agree that a more compact weapon would help with the moving around but if it turns out that it's not such a Mr. Rogers beautiful day (or night, more likely) in the neighborhood, then in Jaws parlance you're going to need a bigger boat. You'll need your hearing to be working, among other things, to be able to figure that out.

I'll just avoid feeding the piston vs. DI debate here, which is clearly still raging on (or still enjoyed) for some more than 10 years later. I know 300 Blackout is very different with gas, weights etc. but there are people who have done it successfully and I figured I might find some who have here that are interested in talking about it. I didn't come here to argue about it.

Location wise I am pretty far north in Texas.

Anyway, have a nice day.

[dellet]

There are so many myths and misconceptions about the cartridge still floating around the internet it’s a complete joke.

Barrel length for subsonics does not matter, use what ever length you are comfortable with.

You already have entered the NFA world, so stamping an SBR is no big deal, or get something like a Leonidis from liberty that is a one stamp integrally suppressed rifle.

If you feel 45 acp is an adequate home defense round with 230 grains at 1000 fps, then the 300 Blackout will have the same stopping powder with better bullets a larger magazine and rifle accuracy.

The different between a 10” barrel with a 7” suppressor and a 16” barrel with any muzzle device, is that the 10” suppressed is shorter, but loses about 200 fps depending on the super sonic round chosen.

The cartridge was designed for 9-16” barrels. It won’t really lose performance with a 7” nor gain much with an 18” but is versatile enough where it is adequate with any thing 6-24”

It’s more about bullet and powder combinations that any aftermarket wizbang you can buy. If it s home defense you are talking about, reliability is number one. The more fancy crap you add on, the more problems you will likely install. Which $500 unnecessary product are you willing to bet your families life on?

A 230 grain bullet at 1100 fps has 600 pounds of energy, it will be the same in any barrel length.
An 85 grain bullet at 2500 fps has twice that much energy and will get there in a 10” barrel and just keep getting faster in longer barrels. It’s the bullet design that will determine how much and how fast that energy is delivered, therefore the stopping power.

A 110 grain bullet at 2100 fps from a 7” barrel delivers 1100 pounds, 300 pounds less than 2400 fps from a 16”.

I would challenge anyone to shoot suppressed supers less than 30 feet and describe to me the sonic crack.

What you decide to shoot is simply a choice and should be dictated by individual circumstances. Get some real world experience, don’t take my word for anything.

What the hell do I know?
My favorite upper will not work with my lower according to all the internet experts.