300 BLK for home defense?

Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge.

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Pewpewpown
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300 BLK for home defense?

Post by Pewpewpown »

Greetings!
I have been lurking here for a while but haven't found what I'm looking for. I'm not sure that the handloading forum is the right place for this post or not, but since I am looking for the right load for my purpose I thought I'd ask here first...

I have a 8.5" barrel and 1/8 twist rate. I read somewhere that a 9" barrel is optimum for 300 subsonic, can anyone confirm this?

I hope to use this gun as a home defense weapon that wont blow out my eardrums when fired indoors and which will put down an intruder quickly and not over penetrate too far. I was thinking that subsonic velocities may prevent excessive over penetration and have decent expansion in an intruder, and the larger bullet (as compared to my 5.56) would pack more of a punch. Eventually I would like to run it suppressed.

Am I way off base here? I dont have much experience with human-sized game and have a lot to learn. I am still relatively new to reloading but have access to a chrono for testing. Any advice whatsoever is greatly appreciated!

If I missed a thread on this topic or if it belongs elsewhere please redirect me.

If you have any advise on load data that will help me achieve my goal it would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance!
dpete
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by dpete »

I don't know if 9" is optimum for subsonic but the difference between your 8.5" and 9" is pretty much insignificant. My 1/7 twist 8" barrelled SBR puts 200 gr Maker, 220 SMK, and 225 Hornady HPBT bullets touching holes at 50 yards.
Your thinking on subsonics not over penetrating is common but actually defies physics. A slow heavy object is harder to stop than a fast light one. Think of a common hammer vs. an 8 lb maul. Or a loaded semi hitting a wall at 60mph vs. a loaded pickup at 120mph.
If you want to mess up a home intruder and not the 2 or 3 walls behind him, think supersonic varmint bullets. Suppressed they are quieter than unsuppressed but still not hearing safe, but the muzzle blast is eaten up by the suppressor. The varmint bullets are designed to explode on impact at 308 velocities and will penetrate an inch or two before doing so at BLK velocities. 110 grain Nosler Varmageddons are nasty little buggers.
Pewpewpown
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by Pewpewpown »

That's what I needed to know! I'll look into the 110gr Nosler bullets and load data. Thank you :)
BJK
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by BJK »

Precisely what dpete wrote about the physics. But I agree that the 300BLK would make a fantastic HD gun... Using the right load.

To give an idea of the physics... I played around with 80gr Sierras in a 5.56 and subsonic loads (3?) decades ago. I got penetration of 13 hemlock boards with that and while I didn't try it it looked as though they could be reloaded again. You'd never get that penetration with supersonic loads with light bullets, even FMJ. They'd disrupt and break apart. So IMO light fast bullets are the way to go inside if you want them to stay in the target (I do).

I'm loading 85 grain Makers to 2300fps for 1k ft/lbs out of my 10" barrel. I don't think they''ll over penetrate. I have few volunteers for penetration tests but I would expect 6" or a hair more which is enough to make me happy. I have an Amtac CQB blast can on it to attenuate the blast. It's not hearing safe, but it also isn't safe to have someone in my home at zero dark thirty. Priorities. I'll sacrifice a little hearing to take care of the problem if they won't leave.

There's plenty of load data in the appropriate section. But nothing for the Maker85. If you need data let me know. FWIW they always list their bullets as being out of stock. Every time I've ordered from them it always shipped the same day.

OK, now I'm going to contradict the subsonic heavy bullet physics issue I previously wrote. There are exotic bullets that expand fantastically in gel that might give you what you want. I have some but haven't tested them yet. So for now all I can do is give you a heads up regarding them. If they don't expand you'd be in deep kimchee. That's why mine haven't been tested yet, too many irons in the fire.

Good luck, please let us know how you make out.
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dellet
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by dellet »

It’s all about bullet construction and target construction. Over and under penetration is a possibility with both sub and super.

Thick clothing or drywall can plug a hollow point and prevent expansion. A 220 SMK will pass through basic “bullet proof” glass at 1000 fps., a 265 grain cast will barely leave a mark at the same speed.

The problem with subsonic loads is your basically waiting for an intruder to either lose interest or bleed out after being shot. This is the case with most pistols. Depending on shot placement, that could be seconds, or hours.

Supers have exactly the same problems, but tend to cause more damage in tissue due to more energy dumped. More often a larger reason for some one to lose interest in what they are doing when hit.

Keep in mind being able to shoot though a door or wall, is a very real scenario you might consider an advantage.

Some data on the 85 Makers here. Most people just fill it with 296/H110 and call it good. Take a fired case, dump in powder until the bullet will rest at the canalure. Call that max load, back of 2 grains and work up to acceptable accuracy.
viewtopic.php?t=109552
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
GeronPG
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by GeronPG »

A 9" barrel can easily achieve subsonic velocity. I wouldn't trust a subsonic to quickly stop an intruder, unless you get a central nervous system hit, and the risk of overpenetration is probably higher than a 110 or 125 gr. supersonic expanding round. But unless you're using a suppressor, I imagine a supersonic out of a 9" barrel would be deafening, if not disorienting in an enclosed space.
Honestly, my first choice for home defense inside the home is a pump shotgun in 12 or 20 ga. with 5, 6 or 7 shot, which acts like a frangible bullet at household distances and the terminal performance is devastating. The blast will be loud, but probably not as load as the 300 BLK supersonic, the risk of overpenetration is much lower. And a pump shotgun costs less than a suppressor.
Just my opinion, one of dozens you may receive. I hope this helps.
Pewpewpown
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by Pewpewpown »

You guys are great, I really appreciate all the input! I was under the impression the higher the velocity, the further the penetration. I thought a smaller bullet would go right through two houses, whereas a bigger bullet going slower would stop sooner. Clearly I was wrong. Thank you for clarifying.

As for the 85gr makers, I'll look into that. I only have accurate 2680 right now I'll have to get some h110.

Just curious, what's the best bullet profile for home defense? SPT? HPBT?

I spoke with Sierra after the first reply here and he said the same thing, and recommended their 110gr (Varmiteer?) HPBT bullet for the purpose. What difference would the additional weight (110 vs 85) do at the same velocities (2300 fps)? Is 110gr too heavy to be considered for this purpose?

I currently do have a 20ga mossberg with a raptor grip that I use for home defense and I think it would be effective. I will keep it by my bedside for if I have to grab something in a hurry. But I would rather use my BLK because of the rate of fire (and i had thought subsonics) but am worried the 150gr factory loads i have will over penetrate. Which is why I am here, to get clarification on my logic and to get load recommendations.

Again, thank you all
BJK
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by BJK »

I can't answer definitively re: bullet profile or over penetration with 110s. I got the impression that it's for an AR. If that's the case it must feed and that limits selection. As Deliet wrote, it all depends upon construction and the velocity window it'll upset at. Somewhere on this site there are various discussions about bullet performance. My ignorance on the subject convinced me to stay with the Maker 85s. Check out Deliets info re: them. For HD range they should be fine, but for longer range shots (not HD) other bullets, like a 110 or 125 would have a better BC. Generally you want a bullet that expands. This site and youtube are your friends.

Without going back to check, I think we briefly touched on a can. I wouldn't even consider supersonic loads indoors without one. With one my HD firearm was a 16" 5.56 AR (that, thank GOD, I never had to use). It's ben retired for the much shorter 300BLK handgun.

OK, story time... Decades ago I was testing the .223 for HD. I have a range in my backyard, so I opened up the BR window and with the muzzle inside shot outside into the berm. The BR door was closed. My wife 70' away felt the concussion and told me to never do that again. I was behind the gun and she wasted her words because I knew to never do that again. All of my HD guns chambered for a bottleneck cartridge wear a can. I think I mentioned the Amtac CQB. It's not hearing safe, it's a blast can, but it does somewhat get rid of some sound. It's claim to fame is that it's an over the barrel can. So the 10" can only adds something like 4" to the length of the firearm. The longer the firearm the easier it is for someone to grab hold and lever it out of your grasp. That's why I retired my carbine and went with the handgun. I can tuck it under the arm and put my support hand on the end of the barrel for a certain retention. Anyone grabbing it loses their arm and more. A laser/light combo is the aiming device when an encounter happens beyond bad breath range. Your handgun will have the same and possibly better potential.

Maybe the exotic bullets that expand at subsonic velocity would cut down on the blast w/o a can. But I haven't tested the ones I have on hand yet. If they don't expand you'd have the slow heavy bullet type of penetration with very little energy dumped into the target. But no one can live through holes drilled in the heart. But it might give problems with the neighbors. "Whoops" won't cut it if they go through walls and kill an innocent.

Whatever you try, you can test penetration somewhat by lining up 1 gallon poly jugs full of water. Don't let them touch, you're not looking to test hydrostatic shock and that'll happen if they touch. You'll be able to tell (crudely) how much penetration by seeing how many jugs were busted. There should be less penetration in flesh since it's denser and the skin is quite elastic and might sometimes "catch" the bullet if it's running out of steam. The water test will also show bullet upset. I've always thought that if a bullet expands in water it'll work even better in flesh. I have no proof of that, it just makes sense to me.
GeronPG
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Re: 300 BLK for home defense?

Post by GeronPG »

I was visiting my son in a nearby state over the weekend, he's an NRA member also but gets the "Shooting Illustrated" magazine instead of American Rifleman. In one of the winter issues was an article comparing .223, 300 BLK supers and subs, and 300 HMR. Long story short, 223 55 fmj's and 300 supers of 125 or so give optimum penetration (something like 12-16" in gel), 300 HMR and BLK subs a bit too much. One surprise: the bullets penetrated gel about as well after going through drywall as before going through. They used the term "barrier blind" to describe it.
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