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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:11 am
by slickyboyboo79
dellet,
It appears that you are still a sad, and confused little man, because my story is as straight as an arrow, and I know exactly what I said, and have zero issues remembering what I said. It seems you can't get anything straight, with it sitting there in front of you in black and white. Nowhere is there anything that I said complaining or accusing anyone of stealing anything from me, no clue whose butt you pulled that out of. I never said that they took my 125 mod, and that was all they did with this bullet. It is called development, and you have to start somewhere.
Like I said before, the 135 looks nothing like the 110 Varminter, it is more closely related to the design of the SGK than the Varminter with the design of the meplat, yet it uses a thin jacket like the SMK, for low velocity expansion, and has almost the same profile as the 125 SMK. Please go back and do a bit more reading.
If you haven't tested the 155 A-Maxs, and haven't done your due diligence, then don't say anything. The 178s may not have preformed the way you wanted, but I can tell you that the .308 155s, .284 162s, .264 140s, and the .243 105s work plenty well down to 1400 fps, and some even lower. Everything in my story adds up perfectly, again, it is right there in black and white.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:21 pm
by hardcase
slickyboyboo79,
"you are still a sad, and confused little man" Personal attacks are not the best way to make a point.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:34 pm
by slickyboyboo79
hardcase wrote:slickyboyboo79,
"you are still a sad, and confused little man" Personal attacks are not the best way to make a point.
That wasn't a personal attack, just calling it how I see it.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:23 pm
by gds
slickyboyboo79 wrote:hardcase wrote:slickyboyboo79,
"you are still a sad, and confused little man" Personal attacks are not the best way to make a point.
That wasn't a personal attack, just calling it how I see it.
oh really?
I might have to say I disagree strongly with your claim of it not being a personal attack.
I will tell you what. Why don't you go "call it like you see it" somewhere else.
I am in a generous mood. So either do it on your own. Or I will make it so you don't have an option.
Choice is yours.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:03 pm
by dellet
155 Amax 1443 fps 17" ballistic gel. 16" 1/7 twist Model 7
View from the top
From the side. no visible bullet fragments, might find some when it melts, but I doubt it.
Other side, this is a classic tumble.
Exit out the rear. You can see where the bullet hit the bench top.
Exit hole. No sign of tearing. The bullet left the gel intact and was not recovered.
Sorry, I can't prove it did not expand and I'm always willing to learn if someone has a different interpretation of the bullet track, I'd like to hear it.
Tumbling is not something you want to count on in a hunting bullet, maybe it will, maybe it won't.
Edit to add:
Today, after searching a little bit, I recovered the bullet, I might shoot it again tomorrow and see if it will expand the second time it's shot.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:59 pm
by Boondoggle
Full disclosure I'm a complete hand loading newb and a semi-300 BLK newb. The Sierra 135 gr intrigued me and I bought a box of the Ozark Ordnance 135gr ammo to test. Minimum expansion velocity was important to me so I went right to Sierra and received the response below.
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RE: New Contact on SierraBullets.com
Inbox
x
Gary Prisendorf <
[email protected]>
6:24 PM (3 hours ago)
to me
Patrick,
It should be around 1700 FPS or faster for reliable expansion.
Gary
From: Sierra [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:16 PM
To: Gary Prisendorf <
[email protected]>
Subject: New Contact on SierraBullets.com
Sierra Bullets
A new contact has been submitted.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:07 am
by MMA10mm
Boondoggle wrote:Full disclosure I'm a complete hand loading newb and a semi-300 BLK newb. The Sierra 135 gr intrigued me and I bought a box of the Ozark Ordnance 135gr ammo to test. Minimum expansion velocity was important to me so I went right to Sierra and received the response below.
Print all In new window
RE: New Contact on SierraBullets.com
Inbox
x
Gary Prisendorf <
[email protected]>
6:24 PM (3 hours ago)
to me
Patrick,
It should be around 1700 FPS or faster for reliable expansion.
Gary
From: Sierra [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 6:16 PM
To: Gary Prisendorf <
[email protected]>
Subject: New Contact on SierraBullets.com
Sierra Bullets
A new contact has been submitted.
This does not surprise me, nor does the 1600fps number, nor does the 1400fps number.
It has been my experience that techs at the bullet manufacturers will discuss things with the customer, and often the customer runs with what they want to hear. The techs mostly run off of in-house computers and manuals full of data. It would not surprise me in the least for the various conversations/thought processes to have gone something like this:
Dr. Phil calls Sierra and asks for the expansion threshold. The tech looks it up and says: "well, the book says it was designed to expand down to 1600 fps."
Slickboy calls and the tech looks it up and says, "well the book says 1600." Slick says back: "Well, that's what the book says; don't you think it might expand at a lower velocity?" Tech says, "well, yeah, it
MIGHT, but it would be inconsistent." Slick, having heard what he wanted to hear, in his head, runs with the 1400fps number...
Then, Boondoggle, e-mails, and THAT tech reads the book at 1600 and thinks, "well, if I reply 1700 fps, it will always mushroom nice and perfect, as I'm giving a cushion over the threshold velocity," and writes just that in the e-mail quoted above...
The truth is, you'd have to get PAST the nice, friendly techs who generally answer the phone/e-mails, and get to the actual lab guy(s) who was running the velocity tests when the bullet was in development, OR, you could just assume when they put the data in the book, the tech who actually ran the tests decided that the 1600 number was the right one to go with based on his/her tests.
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:01 pm
by MMA10mm
Well, I'm more a visual learner, so I put together a word document with a table colored to the distance that the bullets are supposed to expand. I also entered the energy numbers for every 100 yards and the final distance where expansion is no longer guaranteed.
As I'm doing this (wish I could post it here), I'm finding some interesting things in the data which is confusing. For example, EVERY 130gr and 135gr bullet PLUS the 155gr Berger VLD Hunting, all are listed as 2000fps EXCEPT, the DRT 135gr which only gets a paltry 1780fps... I wonder why??
I'm also finding some pretty good variations of velocity in the 110gr bullet category. Some of this is because the data Dr. Phil listed appears to be the velocity shown by the bullet company's load book, and naturally, some have loaded their 110gr bullets to different velocities than other company's, but the exact same as other 110gr bullets of their own manufacture... Understandable, but generates a little confusion when using the data to compare one bullet to another to decide what one is best for your uses...
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:54 pm
by A-Game
MMA10mm wrote:Well, I'm more a visual learner, so I put together a word document with a table colored to the distance that the bullets are supposed to expand. I also entered the energy numbers for every 100 yards and the final distance where expansion is no longer guaranteed.
As I'm doing this (wish I could post it here), I'm finding some interesting things in the data which is confusing. For example, EVERY 130gr and 135gr bullet PLUS the 155gr Berger VLD Hunting, all are listed as 2000fps EXCEPT, the DRT 135gr which only gets a paltry 1780fps... I wonder why??
I'm also finding some pretty good variations of velocity in the 110gr bullet category. Some of this is because the data Dr. Phil listed appears to be the velocity shown by the bullet company's load book, and naturally, some have loaded their 110gr bullets to different velocities than other company's, but the exact same as other 110gr bullets of their own manufacture... Understandable, but generates a little confusion when using the data to compare one bullet to another to decide what one is best for your uses...
Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:05 pm
by A-Game
A-Game wrote:MMA10mm wrote:Well, I'm more a visual learner, so I put together a word document with a table colored to the distance that the bullets are supposed to expand. I also entered the energy numbers for every 100 yards and the final distance where expansion is no longer guaranteed.
As I'm doing this (wish I could post it here), I'm finding some interesting things in the data which is confusing. For example, EVERY 130gr and 135gr bullet PLUS the 155gr Berger VLD Hunting, all are listed as 2000fps EXCEPT, the DRT 135gr which only gets a paltry 1780fps... I wonder why??
I'm also finding some pretty good variations of velocity in the 110gr bullet category. Some of this is because the data Dr. Phil listed appears to be the velocity shown by the bullet company's load book, and naturally, some have loaded their 110gr bullets to different velocities than other company's, but the exact same as other 110gr bullets of their own manufacture... Understandable, but generates a little confusion when using the data to compare one bullet to another to decide what one is best for your uses...
The Term Threshold is the important number because that number will not change.
DRT was happy to share the info specifically for this thread by my request and I forwarded that email to Phil. I'm glad we have companies that support us in our addiction like DRT, Lehigh, Barnes, and the rest.
DRT loads their ammo for the most accurate velocity not the maximum velocity it is capable of reaching. It has a 200 yard and under recommendation by the manufacturer. That recommendation will give you full expansion of the tungsten powder into your target. Yes it is a frangible but the jacket stays in one piece with the copper bent 180 degrees. It is really cool! (I am an Industry Pro Team member for DRT) DRT uses the same copper jackets Berger uses.
The DRT Terminal Shock bullet has the lowest Terminal Threshold of the Blackout specific bullets to date. DON'T let the velocity fool you this barrier blind bullet has similar penetration to the Barnes 110 Blacktip based on my own testing. It is a flat base bullet and will take down anything a Barnes Blacktip will kill. It is high quality for a reasonable street price. I just upgraded my scope to do a longer range test with it...I already did a 450 yard shot that penetrated a watermelon and water jug. 8 degree incline on the shot.
Feel free to PM me any questions.