300BLK & The VSS Vintorez

[Dr.Phil]

With more reports of NATO nations utilizing 300 BLK weapons, I thought it would be interesting to discuss how it relates to it's Russian counterpart, the VSS Vintorez and the 9x39mm cartridge.

*UPDATED to display proper VSS*

Most of us are aware of the lineage of the 300BLK cartridge, with it being derived from successful 300 Whisper(r) & 300 Fireball "Wildcat" cartridges, but not so much of earlier cartridges born in Europe.
The similarity to the 8mm Kurz utilized in the German Sturmgewehr is quite interesting.

(I'll leave that discussion for another post...)

But even more interesting to me is how the Russians picked up on the whole concept of a subsonic precision rifle and have been utilizing it since 1987.
It uses the 9x39mm cartridge and has three primary loadings.

These three loadings are:
SP5, 250gr subsonic penetrator
SP6, 250gr subsonic AP
SP6Uch, 250gr subsonic training round

The most stark difference between the 9x39mm Russian platform and the 300BLK is how the Russians used it only as a "Special Purpose" subsonic precision platform, as opposed to the multirole utility of the 300BLK.
(I suppose since they had 7.62x39mm coming out of their ears, they saw no need to have it do double duty.)
After looking at the 9x39mm, I have a new appreciation for how exceptional the 300BLK is at being something other than a "Special Purpose" round.

While I initially got into 300BLK for subsonic use, I have come to recognize all of the benefits that come from 300BLK.
It is an intermediate range cartridge that is able to transform into "Special Purpose" roles instantly.
Additionally, it utilizes common components, on a common platform, and does so at minimal expense.
(Well done Mr. Silvers...)

[thisguysguns]

I think this could be a lucrative weapon to clone in the United states using a .358 ARK or whatever it's called now days. Or, even a 300 blackout would be nice. I'd buy it.

[thisguysguns]

Oh, and that's not a Vintorez, that's an AS-VAL.

[thisguysguns]

Here's a VSS Vintorez in parts:

[N2130N]

I read about the 9x39 years ago & it instantly became one of my dream guns as I'm an AK junky. Of course I know I'll probably never even see one in real life.

I am however close to getting a 100% reliable, subsonic 7.62x39 load worked up & once I do, I'll send off one of my AKs to be chopped & threaded for my can.

Next best thing, I suppose.

[BadKarmaZeroSix]

I read about the 9x39 years ago & it instantly became one of my dream guns as I'm an AK junky. Of course I know I'll probably never even see one in real life.

I am however close to getting a 100% reliable, subsonic 7.62x39 load worked up & once I do, I'll send off one of my AKs to be chopped & threaded for my can.

Next best thing, I suppose.

I look forward to a full write-up on your AK build with subsonic recipe that cycles...

[Dr.Phil]

I think this could be a lucrative weapon to clone in the United states using a .358 ARK or whatever it's called now days. Or, even a 300 blackout would be nice. I'd buy it.

Thanks for the comments.
Considering that this would be a "Two Stamp" gun to build, a clone would only be for the truly dedicated enthusiast.
Doing it as an integrally suppressed build would add an extra level of complexity.
Using a Krink pistol as a host and sticking with 7.62x39mm, it would be interesting to see how close you could get to a "VSS Vorgery".
It would take some serious patience to get tuned though.
I suspect that you would have to "dish" the gas piston, tune the gas port, use / build a suppressor with adequate back pressure, and experiment with action springs.
At the end of the day, you would have to ask yourself if "the juice is worth the squeeze."
I suppose if I was a hardcore AK guy, it would be worthwhile.

If I were to take the project on, I would start with a Krink pistol and SBR it.
(Due to twist rate, a custom barrel might be required.)
Just for the sake of economy, I would stick with 7.62x39mm.
Find or fabricate a stock that mimics the VSS.
Find or Form 1 an appropriate suppressor.
Fabricate a dust cover and hand guard to closely resemble the VSS.
Then I would use an authentic optic & mount.
Optimally, I would tune the gun to be able to run both surplus 7.62x39mm ammo as well as custom made subsonic heavy loads.

Sounds like a fun project, but the only advantage I would see in it besides the "Cool Factor" is the ability to shoot cheap ammo when you wanted to shoot supersonic.
I'm curious how expensive this type of build would be.

NOTE:
I updated the photo to reflect a proper VSS Vintorez

[thisguysguns]

I think the biggest issue is that it's a completely different system from the AK in two ways:

One, it's a striker fired gun, so the hammer group and bolt assembly is super weird. In addition, there are no rails for the bolt to ride on (whaaaaat??) the striker has a small rail that it rides on, that's it.

Two, it's a milled receiver with fixed trunnions.

I think you could easily make this a single stamp gun by permanently affixing the baffle stack to the gun. It would just look a lot like this:



The gun can't be fired without the suppressor, or it will jam.

Also, it could always start as a 16 inch barrel with a long, inert sleeve over the barrel. Then, a proper model could be built afterward. I think this would be soooo sick.

[tXr]

The 9x39 has straighter case walls than the standard AK 762x39. It may feed better from the AR style mags than the 762x39 does.

[N2130N]

I read about the 9x39 years ago & it instantly became one of my dream guns as I'm an AK junky. Of course I know I'll probably never even see one in real life.

I am however close to getting a 100% reliable, subsonic 7.62x39 load worked up & once I do, I'll send off one of my AKs to be chopped & threaded for my can.

Next best thing, I suppose.

I look forward to a full write-up on your AK build with subsonic recipe that cycles...

Last ladder test was with 182 grain bullets from old Mosin target ammo & powder from the Remington white box Blackouts. I had 100% reliability down to a bit under 1300 fps in a stock WASR10, unsuppressed. They are a hoot! It's like shooting a 22 mag & all the brass is in a nice little pile a few feet away, not in the next county!

I FINALLY got my grubby paws on the famous D166 Lapua bullets (200 grains) & will get another ladder loaded up next time I'm home. If I can get down to a solid 1100 fps reliably with the added weight of the Lapuas, I'll send a rifle off to get threaded properly. I'm hoping adding the silencer with let me get down aother 50-100 fps. If not, I'm not sure what else I'll try as heavy .311" are basically non-exsistant.