Bolt action specific subsonic loads.

[JDNC]

They won't.

I think I'll take your word for it as I hate to drag all that crap out for a few shots! I think I'll try Universal powder again except seat the bullet deeper maybe I'll get better powder ignition.

Thanks

Try a 90 gr XTP .310 diameter. Fun and will expand.

I read your post somewhere about that bullet but can't remember which powder you used. If it was Trailboss I can't find any, but I'm still looking.

Thanks

[gds]

They won't.

I think I'll take your word for it as I hate to drag all that crap out for a few shots! I think I'll try Universal powder again except seat the bullet deeper maybe I'll get better powder ignition.

Thanks

Try a 90 gr XTP .310 diameter. Fun and will expand.

Yep. There is also a 60 gr .311 xtp as well as the 100gr.

for single shot subsonic that perform, these are great. The next thing is a custom or self made cast hollow point.

[N2130N]

N2130N, This is the best informative thread I've seen in awhile! I don't post much but I do have a few questions you guys might help me with.

I, like others have formed some opinions over the years (over 60 in my case, and over 40 yrs hand loading). Some of that later maybe if in case anyone might be interested.

I have both AR and Ruger ranch in 300 blk using a Omega suppressor. I have a Dillon setup using A1680 for subs as I can use this load in both guns. Recently (as I also like to tinker) I was thinking about using a faster powder and lighter bullet, that's when I came across this thread.

Question, In reference to velocity spreads has anyone tested standard vs mag primers as I have not.
Question, Does the thinner jackets on some of the lighter rifle bullets (spr 125 TNT) expand at sub velocities?
Question, Does one powder appear to burn cleaner?

Opinions (or observations over the past 45 years) BTW, years doesn't mean anything but the fact I'm just old!

I've used and like the heavier bullets due to the fact the powder burns more efficiently and cleaner due to the mass of the bullet but would like to use lighter bullets in my bolt gun. IMO that we can not depend on burn rate charts too much due to the lower pressures (subsonic) that we are using. So we will have to just test, test, and test as we do. Also, I've found Quick Load very helpful with standard loads but just about useless with subsonic loads due the different powder burning characteristics at these lower pressures. It is very helpful comparing load density just not powder selection.


Every bullet I've shot subsonic in ballistic gel has failed to expand. I swage 30 cal bullets so I have several different length jackets to play with. I swage bullets ranging from 168-205grn both lead tip and open tip and they also failed to expand. All had great penetration. So, I machined a serration die to make six serrations down the jacket prior to swaging. These expanded but not like I would have liked. So I then made a die where I could cut a cross down about 1/8" on the core before seating and point forming. Now we're talking, these expanded completely in the first 7-8" upon entry in the gel block. But what a pita to swage.

IMO, one needs to depend on a wide meplat for terminal performance unless using a custom bullet. I don't subscribe to tumbling(keyholing)bullets not that they won't kill but because I want more accuracy down range.

Powder coated wide meplat cast has my interest now as I have a shop full of 30 cal molds. I just don't know enough about PC residue left in the suppressor.

Hope I haven't bored everyone. Just some questions, and observations over the years.

JD

Thank you sir! I try to explore things others say aren't worth persuing & sometimes am rewarded quite well. I'm only 31 so I'm not sure how much I can help you...

I've never tested mag primers. I hardly have seen them locally, mostly regular CCI or Winchester, occasionally.

I don't play with bullets less than 163 grains (other than the tracer heads for fun!) but I highly doubt any true 30 caliber rifle bullet will expand. You're cutting the velocoty in half or more! Pistol bullets sure but you're down to around 100 grains & I just don't see the point, personally.

My main two powders for boltgun subs: Unique for the heavier loads & Bullseye for the lighter loads. Yes they both burn clean, especially Bullseye. Bullseye also meters perfectly.... I mean same exact weight every drop so its fantastic for pounding out lighter (168 grain) subs quick. A couple of my favorite loads (whatever you have for cases & CCI primers) which I think are already in here some where:

165 grain cast flat point (for like a 30-30)
4.5 grains of Unique

^^silly quiet! The lead flat point puts some decent smack on varmints buuuut causes too much meat destruction on small game. I love squirrel / bunny stew but when they don't present a clean head shot I was losing meat for the pot. I also don't like to bell all my cases, so I went too:

168 Amax
4.6 grains Bullseye

Once again silly quiet! These are fast to load since Bullseye meters so well & I'm no longer belling cases. I love this load! It doesn't tear up tasty small game & serves double as the POI is very close (within 2moa) to my Lehigh fracturing rounds & 163 grain AP.

Sure I could load up a little lead or pistol bullet for small game but my zero would change & with iron sights I try to build a practice load to shoot to my 'serious' stuff.

That's awesome that you swage! I'd love to get into that someday, how much to get started in 30 cal?

I didn't believe in in tumbling at first either... but setting up several experiments I found the Berger 230 hybrid (not TAC) tumbles WILDLY in soft mediums & penetrates like a freight train due to its weight. At an incredible 1.7" long... just imagine that whirling through something's chest cavity. That'd be like sticking them with a 1000 fps bowie knife. Oh, they are accurate, very accurate. Midway will discount these periodically, fyi: put them in your shopping cart & wait... they will e-mail you when they go on special & save you about $20 per box. Then try them over 6.5 grains of Unique @ 2.350"

PC I know nothing about. What little I cast is pan lube & shot as cast, no sizing. I have a very beginner's setup. Wide metplat is a proven killer on large game, I am a huge fan of the Ranchdog 311-165!

Hope that helps!

[JDNC]

N2130N, well I was digging through my shop and found about 200 150gr RN. I think they're hornady. I have a lot of bullets in these slide out drawers. They've been in there for years. Anyway, today I tried the H Universal hoping that the longer bullet down in the case would help with ignition of the powder. Quick Load showed my filling cap to be about 50% so I thought I'd give it a try.

Well, that 25gr increase in bullet weight was the ticket. I had to lengthen the coal as the first would not feed from the rotary magazine as I'm shooting a Ruger American Ranch, but after that I had an average 1041 fps of 5 shots that had an ES of 14 and another with ES of 24. Grouped an MOA (and a half lol) at 100 yds. I've got 4 lbs of universal and it's close to unique so I guess I'll stick with it awhile.

This pretty much agrees with your findings in reference to 163 and greater bullet weights just work better. Rebel is using a pistol bullet and I may give them a try. As for the reason why I'm doing this is I just like to tinker. As for bigger game than varmits I have another load using a custom bullet.

BTW, at today's prices..I bet it would be pushing $1500-$2000 to get into swaging. Dies vary in cost due to what design BT, lead pointing, etc., you might add. Personally, I'm glad I got into it earlier but I don't know that I would today. You surely don't want to get into it for savings because there is none. If you want the best target bullets available, for long range then you might want to consider it. That's the reason I got started but I rarely swage today unless I need something special.

I'll continue to be bored but I always find something else to tinker with!
JD

[N2130N]

Whoa! Looks like I won't be getting into swaging anytime soon...

Glad to hear your results! Sounds like a nice first try. You get that load lined out (or any other boltgun loads for that matter) drop them here if you would sir.

Is Universal a ball powder? I'm always looking for a Unique replacement since it meters so poorly. IMR 7625 is dang close (burns closer to Herco) but meters like Bullseye!

Oh. For the light bullets (110-125ish) trailboss is the ticket I hear due to its bulk & quick burn rate (near greendot or W231) I did up M27 tracer heads over 5 grains of TB with spectacular results. Otherwise I haven't tried it with anything else in blackout. Saving the TB for 7.5 Swiss & 7.62x54 subs.

Mental note: in the subs I've tried round nose (jacketed) bullets in, I had to increase powder charges by 3-4% pretty much across the board in comparision to their pointy / boat tailed counterparts.

[JDNC]

Universal is a small flake powder somewhat like unique but has a tan color. I think it's cleaner burning in 45acp at low target pressures than say w231. WST is pretty clean too.

I seated the 125 TNT's down deeper today to a COAL of 2.050" over 5.2grs of universal and they clocked around 1000fps but still the 150gr RN had better ES. i will say that seating them deeper helped with the ES but not enough. I could even seat them a little deeper and try but not much interested at this point. Man are they quiet though. The fast powders and lighter bullets are much quieter than the heavies and A1680. One of my Dillon's is setup with A1680 and 200gr bullets as I can use both in my AR and turn bolt.

[hoser]

I have been playing with my 16.5 inch barrel DTA bolt gun lately.

Quietest ammo I have found is
215gn Berger Hybrid
6.3 Bullseye
Lapua brass
Federal SR Primer
Loaded just off the rifling

Velocity is 1025 with a 23 ES over 10 shots.

Accuracy is around 1 MOA. I am going to play with seating depth to try and get that down.

I also have a ton of Sierra 220s and Berger 230s if I cant get better accuracy out of the 215s.

[hoser]

https://youtu.be/Vhzd8ZYtkMs

[dellet]

https://youtu.be/Vhzd8ZYtkMs

Around 2 seconds between shot and clang, 100 yards?

Sounds like a nice quiet and effective load.

[hoser]

300 Yards.