Newbie Subsonic Hunting Questions

[SSGA]

Hi All,

I'm new to all this, however here "down-under" in Australia we are not allowed "suppressors or silencing" of any kind (nor semi automatic rifles), so please excuse my ignorance.

I would like to know with the subsonic factory loads available Hornady's 208gn A-max and Remingtons 220gn OEM; what distance are these whitetail buck capable, up to 200m/220yds? We have deer here in Oz that are similar in size, called fallow deer that probably like whitetail live very close to suburbia and eat what they shouldn't etc.

The rifle we have coming and being released "down-under" is the Remington SPS varmint with the 16 1/2" barrel.

I'd really love to hear some feedback and see some autopsy photo's, PLEASE!!

Cheers

SSGA
from - "downunder"

[azonikcustomz]

if you are looking at loaded ammo with the hornady a-max bullets you might want to read the hornady site. the a-max is not intended as a hunting round. took this right off the hornady site.....


AMP Bullet Jackets (Advanced Manufacturing Process).
Best ballistic coefficient possible.
Profile delivers low drag and flat trajectories.
Swaged lead core provides uniformity and consistency.
Unmatched accuracy at long distances.

*Match bullets are not recommended for hunting.

[eracer]

The bullets you mention do not develop enough velocity to fracture or expand enough in a subsonic loading to reliably deliver enough energy to the target to make them an ethical means of harvesting game animals. A supersonic load, while noisier, is your best option. 125gr Barnes Black Tips seem to be the bullet most talked about, although there are other good choices.

If you must take your chances with subsonic loads, recognize that with a 100-yard zero, the bullet drop will be around 30 inches at 200 yards.

I recently purchased some CF (Controlled Fracture) 300 Whisper rounds from Lehigh Defense http://lehighdefense.com/Subsonic.html, but haven't tested them in ballistic media yet. They show promise of being much more capable hunting rounds, and although my intended use for them is home defense at short range, they may prove to be good 100 yard hunting rounds as well.

[Wahoo95]

Sounds like you would be better off sticking to supersonic loads since you're not allowed to use a silencer anyway.

[knoxville]

The short answer to your question is yes they will kill pleanty. The distance is going to be dependant on how well you know your rifle and the drop of the load you are using. My 16 inch remington 700 took 5 white tail and one coyote with my 208 amax subsonic load at up to 100 yards. Shot placement is key, as there are no cost effective expanding subsonic bullets on the market. Of the white tail, one was at 100 yards, tumbled on impact traveled through both lungs and the heart. It exited on the opposite side. Subs will kill fine ! They are also pleanty loud without a suppressor, so with that in mind you may stick with supers just due to flatter trajectory.

[SSGA]

However they should be a quieter than the full velocity loads, if not quieter noisier without the echoing crack.

So when these heavy subsonic bullets hit they will tumble and still penetrate with accuracy out to 200m?

Chris

[eracer]

However they should be a quieter than the full velocity loads, if not quieter noisier without the echoing crack.

So when these heavy subsonic bullets hit they will tumble and still penetrate with accuracy out to 200m?

Chris

Seriously?

[SSGA]

However they should be a quieter than the full velocity loads, if not quieter noisier without the echoing crack.

So when these heavy subsonic bullets hit they will tumble and still penetrate with accuracy out to 200m?

Chris

Seriously?

???? Serious question - i'm asking to be educated here ???? (hopefully not ridiculed)

[azonikcustomz]

if your really going to shoot out to 200 yards i would find something lighter to use. the a-max just likes to break up and not do a lot. at short range with some speed behind it you can use it with really good shot placement like said before. look for a v-max around 150 grain. it will have far more effect

[knoxville]

Below is the info based on the balistic calculator on the Hornady website. The BC is probably off, because it should change due to the subsonic load, I used what was the listed BC from the website for imput into the calculator. I have to disagree with a previous post about the amax comming apart. It is not designed to expand or come apart. I have not seen this in real world applications and I have also shot this load out of my rifle for some Hornady represenatives into their balistic media. It begins to tumble on impact and was recovered complete. In my hunting applications I have only observed the red tip come off. There is an old rule of thumb that I have heard that indicates you need 1000 ft lbs of energy to kill whitetail deer. This is just not true. It is about shot placement and blood loss from the vitals just like archery. If you are worried about this, shoot for the head and they will drop where they stand. I have also done this in real application on deer.

As stated before this will still be very loud without a suppresor. Think of any subsonic pistol load that you can think of. Like a 45 acp 230 grain load. Still loud !


Ballistics Table in Yards 208 gr., .648 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 25 50 75 100 150 200
Velocity (fps) 1070 1060 1050 1041 1031 1014 998
Energy (ft.-lb.) 529 519 509 500 491 475 460
Trajectory (100 yd. zero) -1.5 1.8 3.2 2.6 0.0 -11.3 -31.1
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -6.9 -6.1 -3.3 0.0 7.2 14.9