300 BLK Patrol Rifle Round

[rhotondm]

Hello everyone.

I'm new here. Recently ordered a 300 BLK Upper Receiver for my AR. I walked into the office of my range master today and wanted to ask him what his thoughts were on the 300 Blackout round. His response was, "The what round???". So I spent the next 30 minutes trying to guide him around the internet and introduce him to the round the best I could. I wanted inform him because he is the one that would have to sign off on me being able to carry my 300 BLK Upper while on duty. His main concern was penetration or more specifically over penetration. He went on a long rant about certain departments getting sued for using rounds that over penetrate striking unintended targets. Granted that is an issue everyone who fires a shot has to deal with, regardless what kind of round you are using. So my question is. What kind of rounds could I suggest to him that would minimize over penetration and still have good affect on target? I am wanting to introduce this round to our SWAT team because I think it could greatly benefit them since they use 556 SBR's. Currently our department issues 55grain Hornady TAP rounds in the issued patrol rifles and SWAT also shoots the same. I have researched several manufactures such as GUNN, Right to Bear, and Cor Bon.

This issue probably has been addressed already but was unable to find it.

[firedavis]

I would think the hornady 110 gr VMAX would be a good choice. Every animal I have shot with mine hasnt had an exit wound but has had all the energy dumped into the animal. Here is a link to show the penetration and wound channel from horndays website.

http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Whisper-110gr-vmax

[300Blk]

Too much penetration is better than too little.

It depends on what he considers over-penetration. If he is ok with 9mm, 40, or 45 Auto duty ammo from major companies, than they are designed to generally not penetrate more than 18 inches. If you are ok with that, I would suggest the Remington AccuTip over the V-MAX ammo because:

1. It is waterproof which not only keeps water out, but also reduces bullet setback.
2. It is crimped to reduce bullet setback.
3. It has crimped and waterproof primers.
4. The bullet is longer than the 110 V-MAX, and that seems to enhance feeding.
5. Each round was hand checked in a minimum chamber gauge.

If you are ok with about 20 inches of penetration, I would use the Barnes black tip, as it is barrier-blind.

If you feel that LE 9mm, 40, and 45 Auto penetrate too much, and you want less than FBI guidelines for penetration, then Barnes has RRLP ammo (limited penetration).

If you want to consider adoption by SWAT, I would suggest someone talk to the FBI Ballistic Research lab, who can give advice on what they think about penetration.

[rhotondm]

Thanks for the responses. Trying to convince some of these "old timers" that there may be a better option out there is not an easy task. But like some other posts I have read, it will come down to money. And right now the 300BLK is way to expensive for most departments to implement the change.

[300Blk]

On the plus side, many departments approve rifles in "223" or "30 caliber" so you can call this 30 cal. If it were 260 or 277 or something, it may be much harder to get approved.

[rhotondm]

On the plus side, many departments approve rifles in "223" or "30 caliber" so you can call this 30 cal. If it were 260 or 277 or something, it may be much harder to get approved.

Well I spoke to my range master again. He said he looked into the 300BLK round and said he doesn't know about it for duty use because it penetrates so much. I asked him about our 40 cal duty rounds, which we use Winchester LE "T" series ammo. And he said that only penetrates 8-10 inches. I asked about the issued rifle rounds, which are Hornady LE 55gr TAP rounds, and he said only penetrate 12 inches. And then he said the tap rounds won't even go through a 2x4 piece of wood. And then I was thinking to myself. What the heck is the point of carrying a RIFLE round if it won't even punch through a 2x4. Yes. I understand that as an officer, if I had to pull my rifle out on duty, I have to be responsible for every round that's fired. It doesn't matter what round I'm shooting. If I were to miss my target it doesn't matter if I'm using an FMJ or a TAP round. Police have the potential to be sued for just about anything. I don't think it's good to restrict the officers when it comes to life and death. I'm pretty sure when I bad guy is walking around firing off an AK at anything that moves, he isn't concerned about using rounds that over penetrate the target. We had an officer that was killed on duty a few years ago just that way. The bad guys AK round passed right through his patrol car and door then struck the officer in the neck.

[300Blk]

I asked him about our 40 cal duty rounds, which we use Winchester LE "T" series ammo. And he said that only penetrates 8-10 inches.

If the Winchester 40 LE ammo went 8-10 inches, it would fail the FBI minimum penetration requirements, and would not even be sold to LE to begin with. The FBI simply will not buy ammo which penetrates less than 12 inches, so no ammo companies will design LE ammo to go less than 12 inches.

http://winchesterle.com/SiteCollectionD ... otocol.pdf

According to Winchester, their T series 40 penetrates 13.8 inches in bare gel, or 17 inches after passing through a piece of steel. I am sorry for your uphill battle. Barnes RRLP will not penetrate more than the 40 S&W, but it is not really cheap enough for most LE.

Too much penetration is better than too little.

[rhotondm]

Thanks for the info. I will pass it along to my RM. Starting to think he may not know what he's talking about.

I'm not concerned about the price right now. Just convincing the "Uppers" to approve the round and then approve a specific load for duty use. I will have to buy the ammo myself so I'm not really concerned about the price. Although I talked to the SWAT commander and he seemed very interested in the round.

I looked at the Barnes round on their site. I'm also looking forward to the Remington Accu-Tip that you have mentioned. Hopefully those will be released soon. Or maybe the PNW 125 Ballistic Tip. We'll see. Hopefully more options will be out in the near future.

[300Blk]

AccuTip is out:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/731629 ... -box-of-20