I was able to dig out some data on velocities with supers on many barrel lengths, the shortest being 4 inches. It exceeds the 1,400 fps mark by around 100 fps.Omega wrote:Defeating most body armor depends on speed, so can that size barrel do this at your planned engagement range?Ghost12three wrote:Despite the energy losses, am I going to defeat IIIA or lower levels with supers through this 4.5" barrel?bangbangping wrote:If it were me, I'd give up 3.5" of compactness for a 60% increase in energy. But then we may have different priorities.
Level IIIA
9 mm FMJ at ~1,400 fps
(~427 mps)
.44 Magnum Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point at ~1,400 fps
(~427 mps)
And I believe it's 6 hits in a certain square inch which it must stop to be certified. But, it's no guarantee, I've had 5.56 both get defeated and get stopped by level IIIA panels. Didn't send any 30 cal at those panels, so not sure if some would of been stopped or not, but I can tell you that a perp would have to be real committed to keep going after getting hit with a rifle round, whether it gets stopped or not.
Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade
-
- Member
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:19 pm
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
You will likely need more velocity than that and bullet construction will be everything.Ghost12three wrote:I was able to dig out some data on velocities with supers on many barrel lengths, the shortest being 4 inches. It exceeds the 1,400 fps mark by around 100 fps.Omega wrote:Defeating most body armor depends on speed, so can that size barrel do this at your planned engagement range?Ghost12three wrote:
Despite the energy losses, am I going to defeat IIIA or lower levels with supers through this 4.5" barrel?
Level IIIA
9 mm FMJ at ~1,400 fps
(~427 mps)
.44 Magnum Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point at ~1,400 fps
(~427 mps)
And I believe it's 6 hits in a certain square inch which it must stop to be certified. But, it's no guarantee, I've had 5.56 both get defeated and get stopped by level IIIA panels. Didn't send any 30 cal at those panels, so not sure if some would of been stopped or not, but I can tell you that a perp would have to be real committed to keep going after getting hit with a rifle round, whether it gets stopped or not.
A good example might be the Barnes Blacktip. It is a barrier blind bullet, so will have a good chance of defeating the armor, but needs 1350 fps to expand reliably. Most rifle bullets will need more than that to expand.
Defeating the armor just to have the bullet pencil through what's behind it is kind of self defeating.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Like I said, some may penetrate, while others will not. I was shooting 5.56 out of a 14.5" barrel, at upwards of 2500fps, so everything else being equal, they should all been through and through shots. So the most honest answer to your question is, maybe.Ghost12three wrote:I was able to dig out some data on velocities with supers on many barrel lengths, the shortest being 4 inches. It exceeds the 1,400 fps mark by around 100 fps.Omega wrote:Defeating most body armor depends on speed, so can that size barrel do this at your planned engagement range?Ghost12three wrote:
Despite the energy losses, am I going to defeat IIIA or lower levels with supers through this 4.5" barrel?
Level IIIA
9 mm FMJ at ~1,400 fps
(~427 mps)
.44 Magnum Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point at ~1,400 fps
(~427 mps)
And I believe it's 6 hits in a certain square inch which it must stop to be certified. But, it's no guarantee, I've had 5.56 both get defeated and get stopped by level IIIA panels. Didn't send any 30 cal at those panels, so not sure if some would of been stopped or not, but I can tell you that a perp would have to be real committed to keep going after getting hit with a rifle round, whether it gets stopped or not.
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
~Pericles~
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Ya know, these vests can be penetrated at pistol velocities too. A bullet that turns inside out on the surface probably isn't going to do what you want it too either. Unless you have velocity to spare, and even then, it's still about the bullet.
Military Arms Channel
Subsonic 300 Black Out vs. Kevlar Body Armor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euucD2YJq4w
Military Arms Channel
Subsonic 300 Black Out vs. Kevlar Body Armor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euucD2YJq4w
-
- Senior Silent Operator
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:05 pm
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Here's some velocity data from 4.75", 6", 6.5" barrels with various ammo, 5" data added soon.
Also, shameless plug for my article.
https://loadoutroom.com/51926/ultra-sho ... up-part-2/
Also, shameless plug for my article.
https://loadoutroom.com/51926/ultra-sho ... up-part-2/
[url=http://militarysignatures.com][img]http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member11084.png[/img][/url]
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Be nice to see a follow up to see how it can defeat, or not, Level IIIA body armor. If it doesn't penetrate, or partial, it would be nice to see how much deformation there is. Maybe a top 10 300Blk hunting/SD bullet shootout.withoutremorse42 wrote:Here's some velocity data from 4.75", 6", 6.5" barrels with various ammo, 5" data added soon.
Also, shameless plug for my article.
https://loadoutroom.com/51926/ultra-sho ... up-part-2/
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
~Pericles~
-
- Senior Silent Operator
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:05 pm
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
I think I have a couple IIIA plates around that are disposable. Not gonna shoot my III+ plates though. Need more Barnes Black tips, need some more IIIa's and I'll get a video upOmega wrote:Be nice to see a follow up to see how it can defeat, or not, Level IIIA body armor. If it doesn't penetrate, or partial, it would be nice to see how much deformation there is. Maybe a top 10 300Blk hunting/SD bullet shootout.withoutremorse42 wrote:Here's some velocity data from 4.75", 6", 6.5" barrels with various ammo, 5" data added soon.
Also, shameless plug for my article.
https://loadoutroom.com/51926/ultra-sho ... up-part-2/
[url=http://militarysignatures.com][img]http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member11084.png[/img][/url]
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
I shot Level IIIA soft armor, not plates. I'll have to look to see if we have any Level III plates left. I do have an old, not sure level, door gunner plate, its a full chest size plate, might have to try and punch some holes in it.withoutremorse42 wrote:I think I have a couple IIIA plates around that are disposable. Not gonna shoot my III+ plates though. Need more Barnes Black tips, need some more IIIa's and I'll get a video upOmega wrote:Be nice to see a follow up to see how it can defeat, or not, Level IIIA body armor. If it doesn't penetrate, or partial, it would be nice to see how much deformation there is. Maybe a top 10 300Blk hunting/SD bullet shootout.withoutremorse42 wrote:Here's some velocity data from 4.75", 6", 6.5" barrels with various ammo, 5" data added soon.
Also, shameless plug for my article.
https://loadoutroom.com/51926/ultra-sho ... up-part-2/
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
~Pericles~
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Thought I'd share some pics.
This is a panel we tested, 3 strikes 1, 2, and 6. It's been many years so I don't recall distance for this panel, we tested them at 25, 50, and 100 yards. But it's typical of the entire test, a few penetrated while most didn't. Because three seemed to be misses, it was probably at 100 yards, but who knows.
One went through (1 CP), but I found three steel cores, so not sure what went through.
This one shed it's steel penetrator core and mushroomed perfectly (2 CP)
Here are all the captures, two steel penetrator cores slid to the bottom of the panel, another was about 2" low and to the right of the POI (6 CP), two are the pieces of lead core.
This panel had Kevlar layers which feel a bit waxy, I don't think these made the cut since the panels we ended up with don't feel like that, and the new ones are dyneema.
This is a panel we tested, 3 strikes 1, 2, and 6. It's been many years so I don't recall distance for this panel, we tested them at 25, 50, and 100 yards. But it's typical of the entire test, a few penetrated while most didn't. Because three seemed to be misses, it was probably at 100 yards, but who knows.
One went through (1 CP), but I found three steel cores, so not sure what went through.
This one shed it's steel penetrator core and mushroomed perfectly (2 CP)
Here are all the captures, two steel penetrator cores slid to the bottom of the panel, another was about 2" low and to the right of the POI (6 CP), two are the pieces of lead core.
This panel had Kevlar layers which feel a bit waxy, I don't think these made the cut since the panels we ended up with don't feel like that, and the new ones are dyneema.
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
~Pericles~
~Pericles~
-
- Member
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:19 pm
Re: Supersonic load on 4.5" barrel able to defeat IIIA body armor?
Thank you for sharing this info, but I'm wondering how close this test compares to supersonic FMJ being fired from 4.5"ish barrel, at very close range (25 yards). Judging by other answes that you guys gave me, I imagine it would penetrate. Were the rounds you used for this test expansive? Were they super or subs? Thanks again, bro!Omega wrote:Thought I'd share some pics.
This is a panel we tested, 3 strikes 1, 2, and 6. It's been many years so I don't recall distance for this panel, we tested them at 25, 50, and 100 yards. But it's typical of the entire test, a few penetrated while most didn't. Because three seemed to be misses, it was probably at 100 yards, but who knows.
One went through (1 CP), but I found three steel cores, so not sure what went through.
This one shed it's steel penetrator core and mushroomed perfectly (2 CP)
Here are all the captures, two steel penetrator cores slid to the bottom of the panel, another was about 2" low and to the right of the POI (6 CP), two are the pieces of lead core.
This panel had Kevlar layers which feel a bit waxy, I don't think these made the cut since the panels we ended up with don't feel like that, and the new ones are dyneema.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests