Why is it so hard to shoot subs?

[bearcatrp]

Have only shot 50 yards. The Hornady 190 subs aren’t cheap so once I zero’d there, want going to shoot any more until my suppressor comes in. Nice tight groups though. The suppressor will change POI so didn’t want to waste any. Once the can comes in, will zero at 100 yards. Hopefully next month. Am using a Sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Good combination.

[rebel]

Have only shot 50 yards. The Hornady 190 subs aren’t cheap so once I zero’d there, want going to shoot any more until my suppressor comes in. Nice tight groups though. The suppressor will change POI so didn’t want to waste any. Once the can comes in, will zero at 100 yards. Hopefully next month. Am using a Sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Good combination.

Prepare yourself. 100 yards and subs is like 300 yards with everything supersonic. 22 LR IMO is easier at 100 with the right ammo.

[dellet]

Have only shot 50 yards. The Hornady 190 subs aren’t cheap so once I zero’d there, want going to shoot any more until my suppressor comes in. Nice tight groups though. The suppressor will change POI so didn’t want to waste any. Once the can comes in, will zero at 100 yards. Hopefully next month. Am using a Sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Good combination.

Prepare yourself. 100 yards and subs is like 300 yards with everything supersonic. 22 LR IMO is easier at 100 with the right ammo.

The same load I posted earlier with a 220 SMK, 20 fps ES, 5 yard zero that had a vertical spread of 3/4” at 100 yards would have spread less than 1/8” at 50 yards. One ragged hole turns into MOA+ pretty easy. All it takes is a 30fps spread.

This is why working up a sub load without a chronograph can be very deceptive.

[bearcatrp]

Have only shot 50 yards. The Hornady 190 subs aren’t cheap so once I zero’d there, want going to shoot any more until my suppressor comes in. Nice tight groups though. The suppressor will change POI so didn’t want to waste any. Once the can comes in, will zero at 100 yards. Hopefully next month. Am using a Sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Good combination.

Prepare yourself. 100 yards and subs is like 300 yards with everything supersonic. 22 LR IMO is easier at 100 with the right ammo.

I may leave it zero’d at 50 yards but still shoot 100 yards to see how much drop I get. Am debating ordering a dedicated 22LR suppressor for my 15-22.

[rebel]

Have only shot 50 yards. The Hornady 190 subs aren’t cheap so once I zero’d there, want going to shoot any more until my suppressor comes in. Nice tight groups though. The suppressor will change POI so didn’t want to waste any. Once the can comes in, will zero at 100 yards. Hopefully next month. Am using a Sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Good combination.

Prepare yourself. 100 yards and subs is like 300 yards with everything supersonic. 22 LR IMO is easier at 100 with the right ammo.

I may leave it zero’d at 50 yards but still shoot 100 yards to see how much drop I get. Am debating ordering a dedicated 22LR suppressor for my 15-22.

Don't debate - just do it. 50 yards is a reasonable zero for subs. For purposes of testing I would dial up. A decent optic will return to zero every time.

[bearcatrp]

Been looking for a good 1-8 that I can dial for my new 12 inch Grendel. All over a grand from what I have found. Currently have a sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Nice red dot. Shuts off after a few minutes of inactivity. Can switch between red dot and the eotech reticle. If I could find a 1-8 that will let me dial up for under $500, would get one or 2. Overspent last 12 months on gun stuff so have to back off. Hoping my can gets here soon.

[dellet]

Been looking for a good 1-8 that I can dial for my new 12 inch Grendel. All over a grand from what I have found. Currently have a sig romeo5 with the eotech reticle. Nice red dot. Shuts off after a few minutes of inactivity. Can switch between red dot and the eotech reticle. If I could find a 1-8 that will let me dial up for under $500, would get one or 2. Overspent last 12 months on gun stuff so have to back off. Hoping my can gets here soon.

Red dot will work at 100, just get a big enough dot to see. I use a 6" for a 22LR with irons.

With a 2 MOA dot in a contrasting color, you should be able to center it up pretty easy. I wouldn't even worry about changing the Zero, you'll have 4-6 inches if drop so use a long backer. All you want to know is reasonable accuracy in group size, vertical string, what the actual drop is to check BC, and if they are remaining stable at distance.

This was my target dialing in 3 shots at a time to shoot a nickel at 100. A couple of 3-5 shot groups would show a lot.

[45r]

The hardest time I've had getting a sub load to work well enough for the accuracy to be the best for a given bullet was with cast and the accurate mold #240-A with my 10 inch seekins.
I turned the necks but didn't sort out bullet or brass weight.
Powder coating was good.
Used a FL die and Lee collet die and hornady inline seater.
Accuracy didn't get close to MOA till I used 7.3 grains Viht N-105 at a C.O.L. of 2.095.
I zero at 85 yards to get not too much over at 50 yards and not down too much 100.
With a vortex 1x4 PST I've got 7 shot groups to print 1.5 inches with the above zero and load.
It took a lot of powder weight,primer and C.O.L. testing.
C.O.L. was the hardest to nail down.
These bullets were hard to get reliable feeding and the last shot of 7 gave me bolt over case FTF's so I loaded 8 in the mag for groups.
I've got the gas set to throw them in a small pile at 4:30 about 5 feet away.
Maybe minimal gas has something to do with that.
I don't know if I'll ever get MOA with these cast bullets but they perform well enough to hunt with.
It's been very interesting.
Getting MOA with the 208 A-max has been possible and a lot easier.
Getting 1/2 MOA with a 6mmAR was also.

[alamo5000]

It's not easy shooting subs at 100, What are other issues that need to be dealt with and how to they compare to shooting supers at longer ranges?

I personally have never had any problem shooting supers or subs to any reasonable distances. Then again I am pretty nerdy on a lot of stuff.

I think it all depends on what you are trying to do. Is minute of man good enough or are you trying to get a good grouping? Shooting from the shoulder running around barriers is one thing, shooting from a bench or prone is another.

I have a background in long range and I've tried my hand at getting tiny little groups as well. With my Kidd 10/22 build I shot about a .25moa groups using subsonic ammo at 50 yards. With my precision oriented (16 inch) AR I did a 10 shot group at 100 yards that I could cover with a dime. (less than .7 inches from the outside edges of the holes, which is roughly a little under 1/2MOA). I can reliably reach out to 800 yards with that gun.

I've also shot a .22LR out to 200 yards with subs and kept them all within about a 6" group or better.

My long range I've gotten really nice groups out to 1,400 yards. We have a lane out to 1,800 yards but I haven't shot that far yet.

I don't want to say it's not hard to do, but it just requires a lot of attention to detail. Your ammo matters. Advanced reloading techniques apply. Having your gun at a true zero matters a lot. (see the part about reloading). In the case of .22LR I had to buy the expensive stuff to get that performance.

Once you get your gun zeroed properly without cant and whatnot and you get all the controllable factors into a predictable realm a lot of the rest is pure skill of primarily wind calling. If you're sitting there wondering if your ammo is fine or if your gun works right you should get that stuff under control first.

Wind calling and understanding ballistics including temperature and humidity variations matters a lot, especially at long range. For example at 1,400 yards if I called the wind at a direct crosswind at 2mph and it actually turned out to be 3mph instead, I am already off by well over a foot from a perfect point of aim. If the wind is gusting a 2 to 4 mph that is a difference of about 29 inches of correction to 58 inches of correction. When you are shooting at a 24 inch plate that kind of error would put you completely off the target.

Basically it requires more brain power and attention to detail to shoot long ranges, or even long ranges for caliber. Shooting subs at 100 yards is substantially easier than shooting anything at 1,400 plus. Unless you are shooting in a hurricane it's not harder at all, not really. It just depends on your goals, and expectations. If you want to shoot one hole groups at 200 yards, good luck, having realistic expectations is important.

A lot of the skill crosses over from different disciplines of shooting for sure. Learning the ropes of long range shooting ultimately will help you to do other stuff better as well. Learning how to think through the problem helps.

Going into more than that is really going to be dependent on the firearm being used, what caliber and all kinds of other stuff.

[dellet]

Bump just because I don’t want anyone to think it’s easy to shoot small groups with subs, even past 50 yards. Some good shooters chimed in that found a lot of frustration when they first started shooting subs.

Poked a little fun at Roadrunner 1969 in this thread for bench rest stuff, but he’s right. All the fun of long distance shooting in your own backyard

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=110812&start=10