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 Post subject: Kinetic limitations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:18 am 
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New Member

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:08 am
Posts: 1
New to 300 blk, and I am curious to the limitations of the cartridge as far as to what weight can I sling at what speed to give maximum penetration to larger game without obliterating half the animal?


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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic limitations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:48 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:10 pm
Posts: 1178
Ahoy matt86, welcome to our happy forum,

I only have shot Michigan whitetail deer with mine; nothing larger &/or tougher like bear, moose, elk, boar, sasquatch...


But, in deer, the 110 Barnes blacktip passes fully through and makes the chest cavity into jelly. The 120 grain made for 300blk velocities will do similar. Being an all copper bullet that retains almost 100% weight, it penetrates very well. Hitting a shoulder bone might slow it and limit penetration but I have always slipped the bullet ahead of or behind these heavy ones so I can’t speak to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic limitations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:49 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:09 am
Posts: 1192
Location: NW Florida
It's not so much the bullet weight, but the construction and design in my opinion and experience. For years I used the Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip, but I had a failure to penetrate deep enough on my largest hog with that bullet (never a failure on deer to penetrate deep). It expanded fine, just didn't go far enough in. On coyotes it wouldn't expand enough. I switched to the Barnes 110gr black tip for deer, hogs, and coyotes and haven't looked back. It expands and penetrates and is accurate in most barrels. Factory ammo and my handloads are all at about 2400fps out of 16" barrels (some bbls a few feet less and some bbls a few feet more than 2400fps).

On larger male hogs, it penetrates 2-3" more than the Noslers. On deer on broadside shots, both bullets exit the opposite side. On sows, both bullets exit the opposite side.

I simply cannot say enough good about the Barnes Blackout designed bullet other than it costs more than most bullets. I sight my hunting rifles in with it and use cheaper loads for plinking and practice.

PS Just checked my records. Since switching to the Barnes 110gr black tip, I've taken 6 deer, 1 coyote, and 9 hogs with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic limitations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:48 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm
Posts: 5486
Matt86 wrote:
New to 300 blk, and I am curious to the limitations of the cartridge as far as to what weight can I sling at what speed to give maximum penetration to larger game without obliterating half the animal?


Matt86, you’ve asked a question that is tough to answer because of the many options available to shoot the same cartridge from and in a way that leaves it open for a lot of wounded and unrecoverable animals. Kinetic energy is a mystical number that is pointless in shooting live things. Shot placement and bullet construction are far more important.

To answer your question, as you wrote it;

A 150 grain solid match bullet at 2300 fps or an 85 grain solid at 3000fps will both have well over 1700 pounds of kinetic energy at the muzzle. Both those speeds are possible from an 18” barrel.

If you shoot your game in a fleshy part like the lower part of the neck, away from the spine, you will get a complete pass through with little or no damage to any tissue. Next best spot would be to gut shoot them. The problem with that shot, is the animal is more likely to die in a few days or weeks, instead of survive like the neck shot.

The effiency of the bullet to dump the available energy, is the real question and matching that to the target is the problem. If a bullet passes through, it may not release very much of it’s energy and may not be effective at all. Same thing applies if it only penetrates the skin and flattens on the shoulder bone, it has dumped 100% of its energy and accomplished nothing.

Bullet recommendation for an 8” barrel on 100 pound deer may be completely different than a 16” barrel and a 300 pound hog.

The cartridge can be loaded to pistol, or a low to medium powered rifle. You would be hard pressed to get a 223 and an 85 grain bullet to 3000 fps. But a 308 caliber bullet of that weight will not have the flat trajectory of a 223 at 2800 fps.

Lots of choices and things to think about, knowing the purpose will define the answers.

Not sure I gave the answer you were looking for, but it is the answer to your question. Maximum speed, 3000 fps with an 85 grain bullet or 2300 fps with a 150 grain bullet will both have maximum energy. The 150 grain will offer more penetration and with proper shot placement you could get a complete pass through. 100% penetration on a bull moose is possible at the right distance with the right bullet, with little to no tissue damage. Not sure that is what you would actually want.

The others have made very good suggestions to insure a successful, ethical harvest of an animal. I have given you the raw numbers hopefully between the two you can make some good choices.

Welcome to the fun.

_________________
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.


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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic limitations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:47 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:00 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Houston
dellet wrote:
Matt86 wrote:
New to 300 blk, and I am curious to the limitations of the cartridge as far as to what weight can I sling at what speed to give maximum penetration to larger game without obliterating half the animal?


Matt86, you’ve asked a question that is tough to answer because of the many options available to shoot the same cartridge from and in a way that leaves it open for a lot of wounded and unrecoverable animals. Kinetic energy is a mystical number that is pointless in shooting live things. Shot placement and bullet construction are far more important.

To answer your question, as you wrote it;

A 150 grain solid match bullet at 2300 fps or an 85 grain solid at 3000fps will both have well over 1700 pounds of kinetic energy at the muzzle. Both those speeds are possible from an 18” barrel.

If you shoot your game in a fleshy part like the lower part of the neck, away from the spine, you will get a complete pass through with little or no damage to any tissue. Next best spot would be to gut shoot them. The problem with that shot, is the animal is more likely to die in a few days or weeks, instead of survive like the neck shot.

The effiency of the bullet to dump the available energy, is the real question and matching that to the target is the problem. If a bullet passes through, it may not release very much of it’s energy and may not be effective at all. Same thing applies if it only penetrates the skin and flattens on the shoulder bone, it has dumped 100% of its energy and accomplished nothing.

Bullet recommendation for an 8” barrel on 100 pound deer may be completely different than a 16” barrel and a 300 pound hog.

The cartridge can be loaded to pistol, or a low to medium powered rifle. You would be hard pressed to get a 223 and an 85 grain bullet to 3000 fps. But a 308 caliber bullet of that weight will not have the flat trajectory of a 223 at 2800 fps.

Lots of choices and things to think about, knowing the purpose will define the answers.

Not sure I gave the answer you were looking for, but it is the answer to your question. Maximum speed, 3000 fps with an 85 grain bullet or 2300 fps with a 150 grain bullet will both have maximum energy. The 150 grain will offer more penetration and with proper shot placement you could get a complete pass through. 100% penetration on a bull moose is possible at the right distance with the right bullet, with little to no tissue damage. Not sure that is what you would actually want.

The others have made very good suggestions to insure a successful, ethical harvest of an animal. I have given you the raw numbers hopefully between the two you can make some good choices.

Welcome to the fun.


Great post from all. I wish this forum had a like button. I learn every time I log on.


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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic limitations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:45 am 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:22 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Democratic Peoples Republik of Dane County Wisconsin
TexasEric wrote:
Great post from all. I wish this forum had a like button. I learn every time I log on.


Exactly right, keeps me coming back over and over again.


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