suppressor compatible handguards?

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alamo5000
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by alamo5000 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:14 pm

I should also add that having that kind of tucked under setup promotes really bad shooting techniques.

Watch the video below from Tu. Pay attention to the whole thing but particularly the parts about the grip, weight management, the vertical grip, etc.

Not being able to mount things is bad but shooting offhand from a wag well grip is even worse. Some variety of a C grip is highly encouraged..

With the problems I mentioned above about heat it promotes a compensation rather than a proper techniques for off hand shooting.

https://youtu.be/xlSvKt_MHFI

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golfindia
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by golfindia » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:35 pm

But the can under the handguard is tacticool....

The concept works fine for PCC, since they dont get hot. I admit to doing a couple rifles this way....I keep accumulating dedicated direct thread F1 pistol cans that just stay on one gun, so I figured why not. Doing it this way I can also get away with making longer (and better performing) PCC cans without having a weird looking rifle. I have one 22LR AR with a 4" barrel and an 8" can. Sure, Integral would be better, one day.....

I've ground down Mlock screws/nuts and they usually fit in there fine, except for a 45acp rifle that has a 1.625" diameter can.

I always take a potholder to the range with me in case I have to grab a hot can. (NOT tacticool...)

I like the Young Manufacturing tube type handguards. Cheap and ID is 1.75".

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dellet
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by dellet » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:17 pm

alamo5000 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:11 pm
dowser wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 pm
alamo5000 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:02 pm
If you do mean something big enough ID to tuck a suppressor inside of it that is something I would never do nor recommend for anyone else to do either.
Why not? There's many examples of these out there. What's wrong with doing it?
There are numerous problems with that kind of setup hence in large part why that system has fallen out of favor over the past several years.

1. The heat generated from a suppressor is a lot. One mag dump and you won't be able to hold the hand guard anywhere near the suppressor. This is definitely true of 5.56 and maybe 300BLK supers, if you shoot subs 100% all the time you might be able to get away with it, but it will still get warm especially if you do any amount of volume shooting.

2. If you use any kind of system such as Magpul's M-Lok you won't be able to mount anything forward on the hand guard because (depending on the hand guard and the depth of the seating of the suppressor) the M-Lok screws and nuts will interfere with the suppressor in the majority of the cases. Vertical grips, lights, illuminators, or pretty much anything that would go out on the end...odds are it won't work because of clearance issues.

The same rings true for hand stops, which of course means you could be much more prone to reaching out a little bit too far...which is not good.

If you use a quad rail or something like that you could probably get around that--but it would mean getting all new accessories especially if you are say already invested in M-Lok or whatever. Never played with Keymod so I can't say about that...but already we are creating issues about the system and the choices you get as far as configuration and hand guard choice.

3. You are definitely limited on the type and size and brand of suppressor you use. Some of the mounting systems simply will not fit under ANY hand guard. Also depending on future developments if you say buy a new suppressor and the mount is the same but the OD is slightly different, you have to rebuild the upper.

4. If you are in a firing situation and the can walks off the mount (even just loosens up a little bit) you're kind of stuck until things cool down. With my suppressors I can grab them near the base and snug it back up but grabbing one out on the end or middle, no way. At least not for a few minutes.

These are just a few of the issues.

Also from what I gather there is a thing called 'hoop strength'... so hand guards that have a bigger diameter inside have to give up something somewhere. To get the same hoop strength as a smaller diameter hand guard they would have to beef it up, not thin it out, which means your gun will be bigger heavier and more out of balance front to back, especially with a suppressor on it. No such thing as a free lunch when you start getting into the weeds on this.
alamo5000 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:14 pm
I should also add that having that kind of tucked under setup promotes really bad shooting techniques.

Watch the video below from Tu. Pay attention to the whole thing but particularly the parts about the grip, weight management, the vertical grip, etc.

Not being able to mount things is bad but shooting offhand from a wag well grip is even worse. Some variety of a C grip is highly encouraged..

With the problems I mentioned above about heat it promotes a compensation rather than a proper techniques for off hand shooting.

https://youtu.be/xlSvKt_MHFI
It's rare that I go down this road but there is so much garbage in those reasons not tuck a can under a handgaurd that it's impossible not to.

Every single thing you mentioned, with the exception of hoop strength will be just as much of an issue with a short barrel regardless if the can is in front of or inside the guard. And since I don't don't hang a lot of useless crap off the front of my rifles I stay away from M lock and any other high quality Magpul products as possible.

I will say that additional hoop strength could have come in handy the day got my truck stuck in gumbo and needed a lever to get it moving. If I had only had a magpul handgaurd and a rock try pry against I could have not bought that winch.

The one thing that the longer handgaud does do is give you a much better sight radius if you shoot irons and a much better support and pivot point if you use a bipod.

Inside or outside it's 99% choice, 1% function no matter which way you go.

As for availability, that's a bigger crock, unless being limited to over 100 choices is an issue for you.

Shooting style and usage dictate what you should buy, not internet ninja drivel.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

alamo5000
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by alamo5000 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:52 pm

Given that hoop strength isn't the end all and be all to the discussion. Standing on its own it's not a big deal for most people provided that the hand guard isn't made out of Chineseium and is made to spec.

Also tucking a suppressor also means that you need to shoot suppressed 100% of the time depending on the details of your build.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... le-brakes/

Other than what I already mentioned above I can't think of any other reasons of how I can help spend your money.

By all means do your own thing.

ponzer04
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by ponzer04 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:02 pm

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I got a can tucked in my rails. This is a Spikes Tactical Compressor and utilizes a Spikes BAR (big as rail) I have yet to get it too hot to hold and can c-clamp it.

Animal
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by Animal » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:33 pm

alamo5000 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:11 pm
dowser wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 pm
alamo5000 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:02 pm
If you do mean something big enough ID to tuck a suppressor inside of it that is something I would never do nor recommend for anyone else to do either.
Why not? There's many examples of these out there. What's wrong with doing it?
There are numerous problems with that kind of setup hence in large part why that system has fallen out of favor over the past several years.

1. The heat generated from a suppressor is a lot. One mag dump and you won't be able to hold the hand guard anywhere near the suppressor. This is definitely true of 5.56 and maybe 300BLK supers, if you shoot subs 100% all the time you might be able to get away with it, but it will still get warm especially if you do any amount of volume shooting.

THE PURPOSE OF THE GUN IS HOME DEFENSE AND TRUNK GUN. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SHROUD THE SUPPRESSOR SO I CAN GET MY LIGHT AT THE END OF THE SUPPRESSOR, SO THE SUPPRESSOR WON'T CREATE A SHADOW AND BE LIT UP ONE FOOT FROM MY FACE. IT WONT BE SHOT ENOUGH TO OVER HEAT. GLOVES WORK IF IT GETS WARM.

2. If you use any kind of system such as Magpul's M-Lok you won't be able to mount anything forward on the hand guard because (depending on the hand guard and the depth of the seating of the suppressor) the M-Lok screws and nuts will interfere with the suppressor in the majority of the cases. Vertical grips, lights, illuminators, or pretty much anything that would go out on the end...odds are it won't work because of clearance issues.

I HAVE TESTED 1.5" SUPPRESSORS WITH 1.8 ID HANDGAURDS AND HAD NO PROBLEM WITH M-LOK NUTS


The same rings true for hand stops, which of course means you could be much more prone to reaching out a little bit too far...which is not good.

If you use a quad rail or something like that you could probably get around that--but it would mean getting all new accessories especially if you are say already invested in M-Lok or whatever. Never played with Keymod so I can't say about that...but already we are creating issues about the system and the choices you get as far as configuration and hand guard choice.

3. You are definitely limited on the type and size and brand of suppressor you use. Some of the mounting systems simply will not fit under ANY hand guard. Also depending on future developments if you say buy a new suppressor and the mount is the same but the OD is slightly different, you have to rebuild the upper.

4. If you are in a firing situation and the can walks off the mount (even just loosens up a little bit) you're kind of stuck until things cool down. With my suppressors I can grab them near the base and snug it back up but grabbing one out on the end or middle, no way. At least not for a few minutes.

WONT BE SHOT ENOUGH TO LOOSEN

These are just a few of the issues.

Also from what I gather there is a thing called 'hoop strength'... so hand guards that have a bigger diameter inside have to give up something somewhere. To get the same hoop strength as a smaller diameter hand guard they would have to beef it up, not thin it out, which means your gun will be bigger heavier and more out of balance front to back, especially with a suppressor on it. No such thing as a free lunch when you start getting into the weeds on this.
I WONT BE SWINGING ON MY HANDGUARD. I THINK IT WILL BE STRONG ENOUGH TO HOLD A LIGHT REGARDLESS OF ITS REDUCED HOOP STRENGTH.

WHILE A TACTIC, TECHNIQUE OR EQUIPMENT CHOICE MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU, IT DOES NOT MEANT THAT IT WONT FOR EVERYONE.

WendyReesef
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by WendyReesef » Wed May 06, 2020 10:36 pm

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Shushh
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Re: suppressor compatible handguards?

Post by Shushh » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:00 am

I'm using the Midwest Industries SP series on mine. Went that way for two reasons. M-lok all around for more mounting options and the boxy design makes it easy to cut.

As for alamo5000's list...
1. This is an issue no matter what. I'd rather have the handguard over it so maybe if shooting a lot I get a minor burn vs having it bare and accidentally get a major burn.
2. With my setup(1.5 can in Midwest SP) most M-lock isn't a problem. Sometimes the screws that items come with are too long, easily solved. And again, even if true you can't mount anything on a rail you don't have. However there's big advantages to mounting lights and sights as far forward as possible.
3. "Rebuild the upper" ohhhh no......
4. Depends entirely on the can and mount. My can has wrench flats at the end. More important question is, why is it backing off.
Hoop Strength, I got the Midwest and have cut more holes in it, no bending so far. I'm not using it as a pull up bar or anything though.
Shooting with Silencer all the time. When I was using a Key-mo muzzle brake I cut out the handguard at the side of the brake so if I had to shoot without the can on it wouldn't split the rail.

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