I have an approved Form 1; Now what?! ;)

[Jcargile]

My plan was to get Ti round bar and go to town. It is registered to be a monster 50BMG. As I noticed many off the shelf models being modular and multi caliber, I feel that I can make a single can that would work with anything I have or would want. I am not open to legal advice at all. If the ATF wants to send me a letter of retrieval, then I have legal standing to present a case and we are all happy, happy. US vs Miller held that only weapons of military value were protected by 2A and Heller vs DC held that 2A extended to we the people. So, please!!!! I am making a single can that I can use for my personal weapons and if I break any of it, I will fix. I have endured the ATF doing every underhanded thing that they can dream up and I am still here, following the law and watching them shake with anger.
I have a local shop that will cut metal on my NFA stuff ONLY if I am standing on site. I also want to cut as much R&D out as I can because those guys charge me even if I am wrong!!!!
For pressure sake, let's keep the 50BMG on the table. I think that machining from a grade 6 Ti alloy will hold her, but, would Tennalum (7570 Aluminum) do it @ around a 1/4" wall thickness? Does anything have to be steel and why?
I like step baffles as they seem to be the most chaotic. I want light weight and compact as possible. I have heard that 7 baffles is about all you will get a return on. I like the tubeless designs that I have seen and since I am not selling it, please, no legal advice about 20% deviations; This is going to be as unique as they come and probably cost far more than the off the shelf offerings. The only way to get a can to fit my needs is to build it. Lawyers are not going to stop me. Maybe not.

[John A.]

My plan was to get Ti round bar and go to town. It is registered to be a monster 50BMG. As I noticed many off the shelf models being modular and multi caliber, I feel that I can make a single can that would work with anything I have or would want. I am not open to legal advice at all. If the ATF wants to send me a letter of retrieval, then I have legal standing to present a case and we are all happy, happy. US vs Miller held that only weapons of military value were protected by 2A and Heller vs DC held that 2A extended to we the people. So, please!!!! I am making a single can that I can use for my personal weapons and if I break any of it, I will fix. I have endured the ATF doing every underhanded thing that they can dream up and I am still here, following the law and watching them shake with anger.
I have a local shop that will cut metal on my NFA stuff ONLY if I am standing on site. I also want to cut as much R&D out as I can because those guys charge me even if I am wrong!!!!
For pressure sake, let's keep the 50BMG on the table. I think that machining from a grade 6 Ti alloy will hold her, but, would Tennalum (7570 Aluminum) do it @ around a 1/4" wall thickness? Does anything have to be steel and why?
I like step baffles as they seem to be the most chaotic. I want light weight and compact as possible. I have heard that 7 baffles is about all you will get a return on. I like the tubeless designs that I have seen and since I am not selling it, please, no legal advice about 20% deviations; This is going to be as unique as they come and probably cost far more than the off the shelf offerings. The only way to get a can to fit my needs is to build it. Lawyers are not going to stop me. Maybe not.

I'm really hesitant to even type a reply, but here goes.

Not sure what the rant was for in most of the post, but yes, you can make a single suppressor that you can use for just about everything. Nothing says you can only use it on a single gun. Or for a single caliber. But if it's registered for 50bmg, the bore holes had better be no less than .500 inch. And if you're really going to use it on a 50bmg, they better be even larger than .500" so the bullet will pass through them instead of clipping them on the way through.

With that said, having a huge bore hole is not really the best option where suppression is concerned when you are shooting smaller diameter bullets through it. Much of the expelled gas will pass straight through the huge bore uninhibited and is going to be generally loud. Not really much different than sliding a 20 gauge shotgun barrel over the muzzle of your rifle. or shooting through those big fake silencers.

Also, I wanted to mention that a form 1 doesn't allow you to fix your can if you break it though.

I'm not even entirely convinced that you can contract out an unlicensed machine shop to make a suppressor FOR you, or on your behalf if they are not licensed whether you are present or not. The form 1 gives YOU the legal ability to make and register a firearm. Not Joes Machine Shop and Pool Hall. On the other hand, there are people who removes their barrels from their guns and lets machine shops cut and rethread their sbr barrels, so maybe the atf is more lax as long as you have your approved form handy. I dunno. I do all the work myself. But I wouldn't dream of doing it for anyone else.

Here is one thing I do know though, the only legal way to "fix" a broken silencer would be to send it to an 07 manufacturer. They can recore it, shorten it, or most often repair it if you blow it up. Short of replacing the serialized outer tube altogether. And in that case, you're SOL.

I know you said you didn't want legal advice, that's why I'm not giving you any. I don't care what you do. Just wanted to put that info out for everyone else here if I understood what you wrote correctly because the internet is full of incorrect notions, especially where NFA is concerned.

I am going to assume that you meant 7075 aluminum, instead of 7570 that you wrote, which I have never heard of.

Would 7075 aluminum work with 50 bmg? 1/4" wall?

Damn if I know, but please take video if you do it. I would suspect that the wall would contain the gas pressure but the area around the threads would give me the most hesitation to use aluminum for that, however even if it does withstand that kind of pressure, the heat is going to give it a very short life span regardless and the baffles are going to erode very quickly. While 7075 is pretty strong, heat seriously reduces both it's tensile and sheer strength.

I assume since there are no aluminum suppressors in service with the military on 50 bmgs, there's probably a reason why behind it since aluminum is cheaper and easier to machine, you would think that it would be in use and readily available if it were a good option. Especially considering M82A1's are about 35 pounds without a scope and suppressor or loaded mag.

Just my humble opinion about it.

[smustian]

I'm really hesitant to even type a reply, but here goes.

Not sure what the rant was for in most of the post, but yes, you can make a single suppressor that you can use for just about everything. Nothing says you can only use it on a single gun. Or for a single caliber. But if it's registered for 50bmg, the bore holes had better be no less than .500 inch.

With that said, having a huge bore hole is not really the best option where suppression is concerned. Much of the expelled gas will pass straight through the bore uninhibited and is going to be generally loud.

Also, I wanted to mention that a form 1 doesn't allow you to fix your can if you break it though.

I'm not even entirely convinced that you can contract out an unlicensed machine shop to make a suppressor FOR you, or on your behalf if they are not licensed whether you are present or not. The form 1 gives YOU the legal ability to make and register a firearm. Not Joes Machine Shop and Pool Hall.

Here is one thing I do know, the only legal way to "fix" a broken silencer would be to send it to an 07 manufacturer. They can recore it, shorten it, or most often repair it if you blow it up. Short of replacing the serialized outer tube altogether. And in that case, you're SOL.

I know you said you didn't want legal advice, that's why I'm not giving you any. I don't care what you do. Just wanted to put that info out for everyone else here if I understood what you wrote correctly because the internet is full of incorrect notions, especially where NFA is concerned.

I am going to assume that you meant 7075 aluminum, instead of 7570 that you wrote, which I have never heard of.

Would 7075 aluminum work with 50 bmg? 1/4" wall? Titanium would be much lighter than 1/4" 7075

Damn if I know, but please take video if you do it. I would suspect that the wall would contain the gas pressure and the area around the threads would give me the most hesitation to use aluminum for that, however even if it does withstand that kind of pressure, the heat is going to give it a very short life span regardless and the baffles are going to erode very quickly. While 7075 is pretty strong, heat seriously reduces both it's tensile and sheer strength.

I assume since there are no aluminum suppressors in service with the military on 50 bmgs, there's probably a reason why behind it since aluminum is cheaper and easier to machine, you would think that it would be in use and readily available if it were a good option. Especially considering M82A1's are about 35 pounds without a scope and suppressor or loaded mag.

Just my humble opinion about it.

I highlighted some very important comments that John made. Like him, I don't care what you do but there are many that paid $10,000+ fines and/or served time locked up because they thought they knew constitutional and NFA laws. Even the BATFE are confused by the NFA. You could also be bankrupt fighting it in court against an entity with unlimited resources and time.

That said, check out this thread. Might help you in your design. http://form1suppressor.boards.net/threa ... g-drilling

[golfindia]

I agree with John A. as well.

I thought tennalum was 7068, but what do I know

If you have a friend who will machine grade 6 Ti barstock for you, you have a great friend! I'd be interested to hear what kind of equipment will be used for this endeavor. Best of luck.

[plant.one]

I.A.N.A.L. - but you sound like you need to consult one before you end up getting your friend in a WHOLE Lot of hot water.


as i understand it - your buddy cant use commercially owned equipment to help you manufacture your form-1 NFA stuff without being a 07 in the first place. even if you're standing there holding his apron strings for him.

if you dont own the equipment, you're not the manufacturer. if you're not operating the equipment, you're not the manufacturer. the equipment owner/operator is. and would require all licencing appropriate to the items being manufactured, as well as be required to follow the manufacturer marking requirements of the GCA

while i understand that this article - and the BATFE opinion its discussing - refer to 80% lowers, if you cant do it to a regular 80%..... why in the heck would you be able to jump the shark with a NFA item.

https://blog.princelaw.com/2015/01/03/a ... 80-lowers/



just something to consider before you start making metal chips fly

[AggieJim]

https://precisionarmament.com/tennalum- ... num-alloy/

This describes Tennalum. However as a retired design engineer and metallurgy guy, get specifics on the material and run the analysis on expected material performance. Calculate, please don't assume.

[Jcargile]

I thought that I have seen companies offer cans in caliber x and also offer baffles in other calibers as accessories for the can as well. I do not believe that I have seen any can come with multiple sets.
As far as I am concerned, I have met the requirements under the law to manufacture a single silencer for my personal use, I am not sure if I would be allowed to ever sell the item on down the road; But, the serialized piece is the registered firearm. It must be robust and not likely to ever fail. All other pieces are accessories to the registered firearm and until there is a requirement that every baffle, booster and quick attach muzzle brake also be subject to NFA registration, I seriously doubt that the men saving the world from their rights will even be interested and I could almost bet money that any DA would not luft a finger as federal entities rarely get into tangles unless they know the will win.Remember, I AM the manufacturer of my device and I am ready to rip the heart out of the NFA just as soon as I have legal standing to do so.
The shop that I have in mind cuts the metal for a manufacturer of suppressors local to me. They only do it if he is on site.
One of the reasons that I am doing a modular design is that I really need to prove the design on lesser calibers like .308 before I can even begin to tackle something like the 50BMG. I was one of the first ones to suppress the Barrett M82, I am not without a clue,but, I also am no RSilvers either! Lots that I do not know.
Bernoulli's principal of flow is something I am trained in and use, but, I am pretty sure that it only applies to fluids.
I can not access my silencertalk account, so, could anyone here point me to some of the better links as to things like internal ballistic etc.
Look, I am no lawyer, engineer or holy man. You would be foolish to take anything that I have to say or consider anything I do something to be of anything useful, other than entertainment or at most, PRIVATE devotion!!! You are welcome to shake and cower beneath the government if you want. Free will is good enough for God and it is good enough for me. My first divorce cost me six bucks and some change. My second divorce cost me about $400.00 and that was with full custody of my child. There are plenty of lawyers who are more than willing to take your dollars and there are plenty of judges out there who are going to side with the lawyer that they like better, regardless of your case; However, your best advocate is YOU and not doing the best you can for your future is a pitiful way to spend the day in my book. Why not build the best suppressor that ever was WITH the possibility of destroying a government agency that should have never existed?!?! The percentages say to build it and hope they come.

[plant.one]

i mean if you want to have the fight that bad - you might as well just contact the local BATFE and have them meet up with you at the shop to supervise your build. that should speed up the process for you

best of luck.

[John A.]

I thought that I have seen companies offer cans in caliber x and also offer baffles in other calibers as accessories for the can as well.

If you thought you saw a company offering different caliber baffles, you would be wrong. That doesn't happen. And would be unlawful. If you think that I am incorrect, please link some examples for all of us.

As far as I am concerned, I have met the requirements under the law to manufacture a single silencer for my personal use, I am not sure if I would be allowed to ever sell the item on down the road;

This is not even a well formed or completed thought. gibberish.

But, the serialized piece is the registered firearm. It must be robust and not likely to ever fail.

This much is true

All other pieces are accessories to the registered firearm and until there is a requirement that every baffle, booster and quick attach muzzle brake also be subject to NFA registration,

Baffles are subject to the NFA as they are designed or redesigned to muffle the sound of a gunshot. That's why you are not allowed to make spares, or have spares or sell spares unless you are licensed to make repairs.

Boosters and muzzle brakes do not fall under NFA because they are not solely a suppressor part. That is why they are allowed to sell them as a standalone part. Almost all of my rifles have a muzzlebrake. Because none are silencers.

I seriously doubt that the men saving the world from their rights will even be interested and I could almost bet money that any DA would not luft a finger as federal entities rarely get into tangles unless they know the will win. Remember, I AM the manufacturer of my device and I am ready to rip the heart out of the NFA just as soon as I have legal standing to do so.

More incoherent thoughts and gibberish

The shop that I have in mind cuts the metal for a manufacturer of suppressors local to me. They only do it if he is on site.

Again, this is unlawful. Been said several times before. But don't take our word for it. Unless a company is licensed to make silencer parts, they really have no business doing so. But people break the law all the time and it's on them if they get caught.

If you have a local manufacturer of silencers, it would be in your best interest to let him build you one since he's licensed and you are unable to do it yourself. Then again, I'm not entirely sure that you should even have a rubber band at this point.

One of the reasons that I am doing a modular design is that I really need to prove the design on lesser calibers like .308 before I can even begin to tackle something like the 50BMG I was one of the first ones to suppress the Barrett M82, I am not without a clue,but, I also am no RSilvers either! Lots that I do not know.

I don't know exactly what you mean by a modular design. You cant' make various size baffles if that is what you're referring to. Again, you can't do that.

you need to prove the design on lesser calibers like 308 before tackling the 50 bmg???? Yet you were one of the first to suppress the barrett m82. ????

I think you are without a clue. And there are lots you do not know. Perhaps you should divert your attention to learning the theory of oatmeal first. Then after you have solved that, making a suppressor will seem much easier.

Bernoulli's principal of flow is something I am trained in and use, but, I am pretty sure that it only applies to fluids.
I can not access my silencertalk account, so, could anyone here point me to some of the better links as to things like internal ballistic etc.
Look, I am no lawyer, engineer or holy man. You would be foolish to take anything that I have to say or consider anything I do something to be of anything useful, other than entertainment or at most, PRIVATE devotion!!! You are welcome to shake and cower beneath the government if you want. Free will is good enough for God and it is good enough for me. My first divorce cost me six bucks and some change. My second divorce cost me about $400.00 and that was with full custody of my child. There are plenty of lawyers who are more than willing to take your dollars and there are plenty of judges out there who are going to side with the lawyer that they like better, regardless of your case; However, your best advocate is YOU and not doing the best you can for your future is a pitiful way to spend the day in my book. Why not build the best suppressor that ever was WITH the possibility of destroying a government agency that should have never existed?!?! The percentages say to build it and hope they come.

if you can't access the account on silencertalk, I would imagine there is probably a reason why you can't log in. My bet is banned.

[Jcargile]

You know what deadly? If you are suffering on account of anything I post, you have the right to not bother reading them. You also have the right to keep on trolling. I have said from the beginning that I am not open to legal advice, to which includes you and ATF agents. I have complied with the process to make my own can. Until any part of that can is capable of diminishing the report of a firearm, then it is not subject to being an NFA item anyway. You can reference the 8hr rule and how AP 308 rounds are unlawful because AR10 pistols exist.......this thread can get quite volumous with the regulation clap trap. 95% of those regulations are BEGGING to get dragged into court. If the 8hr rule is enforceable, then being in possession of most everyday objects will put you at risk for prosecution and until I see a letter banning all AP rifle ammo, I am not going to bother avoiding AP 308 without any law or regulation being reasonable, it will (should)fail under judicial scutiny.
The entirety of the firearms industry from a legal aspect is paperwork and semantics. I have successfully negotiated international arms contracts and never got chalk on my toes. I have had ATF agents try to enter my house when they thought I was gone. I have had agents approach me at shows and try to sell me illegal parts. I have had them try and bully me on several occasions. People that break the law will fold. I have never tried to break, skirt or bend the law and do not intend to. When you stand up and take them to task and they see that intimidation tactics amount to running the wrong approach, they get really nice and courteous all of the sudden. Men like you feel good about staying above reproach and that is fine.....for you. I took an oath to defend our rights and duty is sometimes not easy, safe or appreciated; It is often something we wait on others to do for us. You just sit there with your average IQ and be thankful that the government let's you have your crumbs to eat. Don't follow me. My path is not for you and I am in no way, shape or form giving anyone advice on how to conduct their business. I paid my tax and I am simply doing what others have done before me. Go to your nearest field office and sing like a bird if that is YOUR duty. I will not lose any sleep worrying what to do. I have the legal plan in place. I am just here gleaming physics. My silencertalk account is registered to an email address that I deactivated years ago. But, that is none of your business.