Possesion of full SBR before approval

[pvanwagner]

So far everyone is replying what I was thinking. My class 3 FFL is a good personal friend. He was under the impression that the ATF looks at a full SBR as a complete thing and is saying separating them is still not OK.

I was even thinking I could have the entire rifle while waiting for approval since I can put the 12.5" upper on my SBR lower just like buying any other she upper as long as I keep the registered upper. Then, since the SBR lower is still a regular lower until it's registered as an SBR lower to me, I could put any 16"+ upper on it. Im not going to push for the lower but I'd really like the upper.

Anyone have any resources or references to help me? I think I will try one more argument for getting the upper once it gets to him because I'm not going to cause an issue with a friend over this.

He should be holding a 12.5" SBR. If he is audited and they do an inventory they are going to want to see a 12.5" SBR not just a lower. A lower is just a receiver even if it was Form 2'ed into an SBR. We dealt with this at work before and we are very careful to keep a "rifle" a "rifle and a "receiver" as a "receiver". Now if he has another 12.5" upper that he doesn't mind putting on that lower and letting you take your 12.5" upper home to use with your current SBR then everyone would be legal and fine. It wouldn't have to be an AAC upper but the caliber and lengths should match the Form 3.

[Sithlord]

Like everyone else said. Only the way I understand it, to add to this, is that you can do that as long as you can also return to the registered configuration of your SBR lower. So if registered as a 8" 300 blkout SBR you need to be able to return to that configuration. You can have and swap out any type of upper, but if you no longer have your 8" 300 blkout upper then you need to notify the ATF of its new registered configuration.

This is the way I understand it. If I am wrong someone will be sure to let me know...

Please quote the LAW or even the ATF Opinion that requires this.

Oh, right, there isn't one.

Do not believe the internet. Read the LAW for yourself. Feel free to ask a lawyer. Read the ATF NFA FAQ. Call the ATF.

THERE IS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO NOTIFY ATF OF A CONFIGURATION CHANGE, PERMANENT OR OTHERWISE. You can sell that upper to ANYONE (even an out of state felon at a gun show on the terrorist watch list without a background check!!!!!) without breaking ANY federal (or, I would assume, state, but I can't say for sure - some states have pretty f'ed up laws) laws. And you don't have to tell the ATF about it.

The ATF FAQ clearly states that it is RECOMMENDED that configuration changes be provided to the ATF, and must be done in writing. The only 'benefit' that I have seen WRT to this is that if/when you submit a Form 20, you MUST provide a configuration that they are aware of. Otherwise it will get rejected, even if the serial numbers are correct. I know from personal experience.

And as recent comments have said, it is really up to the FFL to determine whether the upper receiver can be provided to you to take home independently. I doubt that there is legal standing in this, as the 'firearm' portion, for the Form 3, Form 4 and 4473 is the lower receiver. However, I can also understand the FFL's position that they would rather you NOT take home the upper receiver and use it UNTIL the Form 4 is returned APPROVED because if, for ANY REASON, it is returned DISAPPROVED (eg, you commit a felony prior to approval, not a simple typo), then at best they have a used upper receiver, at worst, a lower receiver that is worth half the price they paid for it.

[ProdigalSun]

Shall not be infringed meant what it says friend.

[TMD]

Shall not be infringed meant what it says friend.

Give it a rest

[ProdigalSun]

When was the last tome a LEO came over to look at your stuff? Don't worry about it.

[ProdigalSun]

Shall not be infringed meant what it says friend.

Give it a rest

Traitor.

[rimshaker]

So far everyone is replying what I was thinking. My class 3 FFL is a good personal friend. He was under the impression that the ATF looks at a full SBR as a complete thing and is saying separating them is still not OK.

I was even thinking I could have the entire rifle while waiting for approval since I can put the 12.5" upper on my SBR lower just like buying any other she upper as long as I keep the registered upper. Then, since the SBR lower is still a regular lower until it's registered as an SBR lower to me, I could put any 16"+ upper on it. Im not going to push for the lower but I'd really like the upper.

Anyone have any resources or references to help me? I think I will try one more argument for getting the upper once it gets to him because I'm not going to cause an issue with a friend over this.

He should be holding a 12.5" SBR. If he is audited and they do an inventory they are going to want to see a 12.5" SBR not just a lower. A lower is just a receiver even if it was Form 2'ed into an SBR. We dealt with this at work before and we are very careful to keep a "rifle" a "rifle and a "receiver" as a "receiver". Now if he has another 12.5" upper that he doesn't mind putting on that lower and letting you take your 12.5" upper home to use with your current SBR then everyone would be legal and fine. It wouldn't have to be an AAC upper but the caliber and lengths should match the Form 3.

Great to know. And this advice is coming from a (former?) AAC employee if memory serves me.

[rjacobs]

yup has to be kept complete.

I think the change to that came maybe 3-4 years ago. You USED to be able to order a complete receiver from somebody like BCM or LMT as a "factory SBR" on a Form 4, but the ATF squashed that at some point and they are only allowed to be sold as complete guns.