Supressed home defense SBR???

Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade

BulletFactory
Silent Operator
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:03 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by BulletFactory » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:54 pm

Flatliner wrote:With all due respect to everyone on this thread, there is some very bad information here. Here is some food for thought.

1.) IF the ammo you use in the firearm involved in a defensive situation is other than factory ammo with 'defensive' or some derivative in the name, there is a high likelihood it will be an issue at trial. I get that this doesn't make sense but what does make sense when talking about laws and guns. Protect yourself and buy a box of defensive factory ammo and a dedicated mag for your go-to HD gun. keep it in the gun when in it's defense role. It isn't going to break the bank.

2.) ANYTHING you do can be painted to make you look like a nut case, be aware of this when on social media, purchasing accessories, etc. FOR EXAMPLE, having your Glock barrel engraved with 'smile, wait for flash' or having a patch on your gun bag that says, 'kill'em all and let God sort'em out' or something like that paints a picture of how you think for a jury, I GET that those sorts of things are funny, a jury of your peers may jump to the conclusion that you were itching for a fight, look at Zimmerman in Florida if you doubt what I am saying.

3.) You MUST think of where your bullet can end up. In the heat of the moment, the likelihood of a bullet TOTALLY MISSING the nutcase who wants to hurt you and your family is almost guaranteed, why do you think modern discipline suggests high capacity over bullet diameter when considering a defensive handgun. If your daughters bedroom is behind the perp, taking the shot is likely not an option unless you know beyond a doubt where your daughter IS. SERIOUSLY, the design of the bullet is at best a secondary consideration. You should play mental games with shot solutions ALL the time so if faced with the situation it is second nature. If you ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY HAVE to take the shot or someone you love is going to die, you may need to shoot the guy's pelvis and put him on the ground. I know from high stress training, that thought doesn't come to mind unless you have practiced it and thought about it a lot. Outside the home this extends to avoiding problems in the first place. Once you pull that trigger, that bullet is your responsibility. WAY WAY better to avoid having to do it in the first place.

4.) Think about your shooting ability and increase your group size by 3-5x under stress. Sure practice matters, especially the right kind of practice BUT if you consistently shoot 3" groups with your handgun, you can bet you will be doing good to shoot a 9-15" group in the heat of the situation. That is probably the best argument for a carbine in HD use. Keep in mind number 2 though. to a degree that depends on where you live. If you live in a liberal area, you are WAY better off not to use an AR, where I live, likely not a problem, (the midwest but not in the Peoples Republic of IL).

To sum up, considerations around this issue don't follow logic. You have to look at every decision you make from the mindset of the worst juror you might face and then make your own decision. There are no right or wrong answers but you need to know what you are getting into and accept it. Don't just assume things will be ok by thinking like a logical gun owner.
Unless youre a cop. Then, you can shoot someone down who is begging for their life, on video, and the jury wont ever see the evidence.

BulletFlight for Android
User avatar
Flatliner
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Flatliner » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:27 am

BulletFactory wrote:
Unless youre a cop. Then, you can shoot someone down who is begging for their life, on video, and the jury wont ever see the evidence.
I believe that is referred to a murder. Personally, I hope I am NEVER involved in any kind of shooting. Justified or not, it would be a terrible thing to live with. I am sure there is some context to your comment but I am missing it.

BulletFactory
Silent Operator
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:03 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by BulletFactory » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:03 pm

If you're a cop, you can get away with murder. The rest of us can't even defend ourselves lawfully, without expecting to defend ourselves against our government.

Sharkbite
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:40 pm
Location: Western slope Colorado

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Sharkbite » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:47 am

The take away from this, and other threads like this, is to never, ever call the police. There is no law, at least in my state, that requires me to call 911 if there is a defensive shooting
Are you fricking kidding??!!?!!?

So, badguy is in your house. You shoot him, prob multiple times...Now what??? Drag him outside and leave him? Bury him in the backyard??

You are going to have to do something with him. If he is dead, what do you do with the body?
If he is still alive, how do you get him medical aid short of 911?

Thats has to be the most insane comment ive EVER read on this forum.

BulletFactory
Silent Operator
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:03 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by BulletFactory » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:55 pm

I’m not taking chances with the justice system anymore it’s simply cannot be trusted. He should’ve considered the possible risks to his health Ahead of time it’s not my problem. I suppose hecan try to call 911 if he can. getting rid of the problem isn’t really as complicated as you might assume. There is no legal requirement for calling the police so there’s no point in doing so.

This is just what happens when people get convicted of things that they have not done.

User avatar
Dolomite_Supafly
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3017
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:03 am
Location: East Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:01 am

I can promise you that no matter how righteous the shooting is once you try to hide ANYTHING you will be found guilty. Not calling the police is one thing but not calling the police after you have shot or killed someone is a completely different situation.

If you think you will get painted in a bad light for shooting someone, try to hide it and you will surely be painted a lot worse.

First thing I would do after being involved in a shooting IS call the police. Tell the 911 operator that you are the victim of whatever crime it is. "I am the victim of a home invasion". Do not say you shot anyone, even if you did. Keep it as basic as you can and only use facts in your statement to the 911 operator. Make sure to tell the 911 operator that you are the "victim". You must use the word "victim" to describe yourself to the 911 operator. Do NOT use any other term, like homeowner, to describe yourself. When you use "victim" to describe yourself, the 911 operator will also describe you as the "victim" when they are advising the cops heading to the scene. And if the 911 operator describes you as the victim the the cops, and investigators, will believe you are the victim. Making sure you are addressed as the victim is probably the most important thing because it sets the tone for how the police will treat you. In police work when a crime has been committed there is ALWAYS a subject and a victim. You ALWAYS want to be the victim to the police. If you are not the victim then you are, by default, the subject and you will be viewed, and treated, as a criminal.

Once the scene is safe unload the weapon you used. Place it, along with the magazine or ammunition, in a place where the police will see it when they enter the home. DO NOT walk outside holding a weapon, even if police have not arrived. The reason is you do not want your neighbors to see you with a gun and then call 911 to say YOU have a gun. Because of the political climate these days anyone with a gun is viewed as the bad guy so standing outside with a gun will make you look like a bad guy and not like a "victim". Also, if you are holding a gun when police arrive you could very well be shot.

Make sure to wait outside of your home and do not reenter the home after you have come outside. The reason is you want to be the first person to meet the police when they arrive. Make sure to greet them by telling them that you are the victim. "I am the victim that called 911".

Once the police have cleared the residence and made sure the scene is safe they are going to start asking you questions. Politely tell them you are going to give them a statement but not immediately. Tell them you have nothing to hide and that you will be glad to give them a statement once you have legal counsel. Then stick to it. The police are going to try to coerce you into giving a statement immediately. They are probably going to threaten to take you to jail but no matter what they say, or do, make sure you do not make any statements. You are not legally required to give a statement immediately. Continue to say that you have nothing else to say to them at that time. Do NOT say "I have the right to remain silent and choose to exercise that right". That is the statement given to criminals and if you say it that way you will be viewed as a criminal instead of a victim.

In order to come out on the positive side you ARE going to have to give a statement to police at some point but do not give any statement until you have hired a lawyer. When police are involved in a shooting they do not give a statement for days or even weeks, we must follow the same rules. And be prepared to be handcuffed and taken to jail. Whether or not you make a statement is not going to change that. Nothing good can come from making a statement immediately after a stressful situation like a self defensive shooting. Another reason to wait is so you can make sure your statement is recorded with witnesses, such as your attorney, present.
WWW.thegunmilitia.com

Come join the militia!

User avatar
dellet
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6413
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by dellet » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:25 am

Dolomite_Supafly wrote:I can promise you that no matter how righteous the shooting is once you try to hide ANYTHING you will be found guilty. Not calling the police is one thing but not calling the police after you have shot or killed someone is a completely different situation.

If you think you will get painted in a bad light for shooting someone, try to hide it and you will surely be painted a lot worse.

First thing I would do after being involved in a shooting IS call the police. Tell the 911 operator that you are the victim of whatever crime it is. "I am the victim of a home invasion". Do not say you shot anyone, even if you did. Keep it as basic as you can and only use facts in your statement to the 911 operator. Make sure to tell the 911 operator that you are the "victim". You must use the word "victim" to describe yourself to the 911 operator. Do NOT use any other term, like homeowner, to describe yourself. When you use "victim" to describe yourself, the 911 operator will also describe you as the "victim" when they are advising the cops heading to the scene. And if the 911 operator describes you as the victim the the cops, and investigators, will believe you are the victim. Making sure you are addressed as the victim is probably the most important thing because it sets the tone for how the police will treat you. In police work when a crime has been committed there is ALWAYS a subject and a victim. You ALWAYS want to be the victim to the police. If you are not the victim then you are, by default, the subject and you will be viewed, and treated, as a criminal.

Once the scene is safe unload the weapon you used. Place it, along with the magazine or ammunition, in a place where the police will see it when they enter the home. DO NOT walk outside holding a weapon, even if police have not arrived. The reason is you do not want your neighbors to see you with a gun and then call 911 to say YOU have a gun. Because of the political climate these days anyone with a gun is viewed as the bad guy so standing outside with a gun will make you look like a bad guy and not like a "victim". Also, if you are holding a gun when police arrive you could very well be shot.

Make sure to wait outside of your home and do not reenter the home after you have come outside. The reason is you want to be the first person to meet the police when they arrive. Make sure to greet them by telling them that you are the victim. "I am the victim that called 911".

Once the police have cleared the residence and made sure the scene is safe they are going to start asking you questions. Politely tell them you are going to give them a statement but not immediately. Tell them you have nothing to hide and that you will be glad to give them a statement once you have legal counsel. Then stick to it. The police are going to try to coerce you into giving a statement immediately. They are probably going to threaten to take you to jail but no matter what they say, or do, make sure you do not make any statements. You are not legally required to give a statement immediately. Continue to say that you have nothing else to say to them at that time. Do NOT say "I have the right to remain silent and choose to exercise that right". That is the statement given to criminals and if you say it that way you will be viewed as a criminal instead of a victim.

In order to come out on the positive side you ARE going to have to give a statement to police at some point but do not give any statement until you have hired a lawyer. When police are involved in a shooting they do not give a statement for days or even weeks, we must follow the same rules. And be prepared to be handcuffed and taken to jail. Whether or not you make a statement is not going to change that. Nothing good can come from making a statement immediately after a stressful situation like a self defensive shooting. Another reason to wait is so you can make sure your statement is recorded with witnesses, such as your attorney, present.
What seemed silly at the time, now seems like some of the best advice I was ever given about what to do if I ever had to shoot someone.

As a kid the neighbor was a cop. At about 12, he took me shooting with him and some of the other locals. Their advice was always carry a double action and if I ever shot anyone, to still be pulling the trigger on an empty chamber, screaming at the dead guy “Please don’t hurt me” until the first witnesses arrive.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

BulletFactory
Silent Operator
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:03 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by BulletFactory » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:21 pm

Dolomite_Supafly wrote:I can promise you that no matter how righteous the shooting is once you try to hide ANYTHING you will be found guilty. Not calling the police is one thing but not calling the police after you have shot or killed someone is a completely different situation.

If you think you will get painted in a bad light for shooting someone, try to hide it and you will surely be painted a lot worse.

First thing I would do after being involved in a shooting IS call the police. Tell the 911 operator that you are the victim of whatever crime it is. "I am the victim of a home invasion". Do not say you shot anyone, even if you did. Keep it as basic as you can and only use facts in your statement to the 911 operator. Make sure to tell the 911 operator that you are the "victim". You must use the word "victim" to describe yourself to the 911 operator. Do NOT use any other term, like homeowner, to describe yourself. When you use "victim" to describe yourself, the 911 operator will also describe you as the "victim" when they are advising the cops heading to the scene. And if the 911 operator describes you as the victim the the cops, and investigators, will believe you are the victim. Making sure you are addressed as the victim is probably the most important thing because it sets the tone for how the police will treat you. In police work when a crime has been committed there is ALWAYS a subject and a victim. You ALWAYS want to be the victim to the police. If you are not the victim then you are, by default, the subject and you will be viewed, and treated, as a criminal.

Once the scene is safe unload the weapon you used. Place it, along with the magazine or ammunition, in a place where the police will see it when they enter the home. DO NOT walk outside holding a weapon, even if police have not arrived. The reason is you do not want your neighbors to see you with a gun and then call 911 to say YOU have a gun. Because of the political climate these days anyone with a gun is viewed as the bad guy so standing outside with a gun will make you look like a bad guy and not like a "victim". Also, if you are holding a gun when police arrive you could very well be shot.

Make sure to wait outside of your home and do not reenter the home after you have come outside. The reason is you want to be the first person to meet the police when they arrive. Make sure to greet them by telling them that you are the victim. "I am the victim that called 911".

Once the police have cleared the residence and made sure the scene is safe they are going to start asking you questions. Politely tell them you are going to give them a statement but not immediately. Tell them you have nothing to hide and that you will be glad to give them a statement once you have legal counsel. Then stick to it. The police are going to try to coerce you into giving a statement immediately. They are probably going to threaten to take you to jail but no matter what they say, or do, make sure you do not make any statements. You are not legally required to give a statement immediately. Continue to say that you have nothing else to say to them at that time. Do NOT say "I have the right to remain silent and choose to exercise that right". That is the statement given to criminals and if you say it that way you will be viewed as a criminal instead of a victim.

In order to come out on the positive side you ARE going to have to give a statement to police at some point but do not give any statement until you have hired a lawyer. When police are involved in a shooting they do not give a statement for days or even weeks, we must follow the same rules. And be prepared to be handcuffed and taken to jail. Whether or not you make a statement is not going to change that. Nothing good can come from making a statement immediately after a stressful situation like a self defensive shooting. Another reason to wait is so you can make sure your statement is recorded with witnesses, such as your attorney, present.

Sorta proves my point. You’re right though as well. I wanted to bring this out into discussion because you can easily be convicted even if you shouldnt be, and it is unethical at best. I really dont have confidence in them to do what is right. I probably would call, but I hesitate to do so based on experiences I have had, and stories in which people are screwed over or even killed when they shouldnt be. Theres no accountability for the authority. I have heard others with the same concerns.

emmagee1917
Silent Operator
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:58 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by emmagee1917 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Some things you have to tell them at the time . Things like you were the victim , that you were the one who shot him , that there is the gun used , simple things that let them know they can relax a bit and they have the evidence they need . Be sure to point out the weapon ( s) he / they had so they are collected , bagged , and tagged . BUT , keep it simple , think before you speak , don't run off at the mouth and say things that you'll regret . You went through a stressful episode and you may never recall it correctly no matter how hard you try . Don't allow your stress to cause them to doubt your honesty .

As far as guns , I have , carry , and practice with Colt 1911 variants . Where possible , each has Trijicon HD sights and Crimson Trace laser grips to help reduce missed shots . Even my Colt Ace has Kensight tritium sights and laser grips for practice . Three full size , one LW Commander and two LW Defenders are also so equipped , all in 45 . If , Heaven forbid , I have to use one , it will be lost for months if not years in the evidence locker . I have spares ready to go . They are tools , after all . None are not irreplaceable .
Chris

User avatar
Flatliner
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Flatliner » Thu May 03, 2018 10:57 am

Dolomite_Supafly wrote:I can promise you that no matter how righteous the shooting is once you try to hide ANYTHING you will be found guilty. Not calling the police is one thing but not calling the police after you have shot or killed someone is a completely different situation.

If you think you will get painted in a bad light for shooting someone, try to hide it and you will surely be painted a lot worse.

First thing I would do after being involved in a shooting IS call the police. Tell the 911 operator that you are the victim of whatever crime it is. "I am the victim of a home invasion". Do not say you shot anyone, even if you did. Keep it as basic as you can and only use facts in your statement to the 911 operator. Make sure to tell the 911 operator that you are the "victim". You must use the word "victim" to describe yourself to the 911 operator. Do NOT use any other term, like homeowner, to describe yourself. When you use "victim" to describe yourself, the 911 operator will also describe you as the "victim" when they are advising the cops heading to the scene. And if the 911 operator describes you as the victim the the cops, and investigators, will believe you are the victim. Making sure you are addressed as the victim is probably the most important thing because it sets the tone for how the police will treat you. In police work when a crime has been committed there is ALWAYS a subject and a victim. You ALWAYS want to be the victim to the police. If you are not the victim then you are, by default, the subject and you will be viewed, and treated, as a criminal.

Once the scene is safe unload the weapon you used. Place it, along with the magazine or ammunition, in a place where the police will see it when they enter the home. DO NOT walk outside holding a weapon, even if police have not arrived. The reason is you do not want your neighbors to see you with a gun and then call 911 to say YOU have a gun. Because of the political climate these days anyone with a gun is viewed as the bad guy so standing outside with a gun will make you look like a bad guy and not like a "victim". Also, if you are holding a gun when police arrive you could very well be shot.

Make sure to wait outside of your home and do not reenter the home after you have come outside. The reason is you want to be the first person to meet the police when they arrive. Make sure to greet them by telling them that you are the victim. "I am the victim that called 911".

Once the police have cleared the residence and made sure the scene is safe they are going to start asking you questions. Politely tell them you are going to give them a statement but not immediately. Tell them you have nothing to hide and that you will be glad to give them a statement once you have legal counsel. Then stick to it. The police are going to try to coerce you into giving a statement immediately. They are probably going to threaten to take you to jail but no matter what they say, or do, make sure you do not make any statements. You are not legally required to give a statement immediately. Continue to say that you have nothing else to say to them at that time. Do NOT say "I have the right to remain silent and choose to exercise that right". That is the statement given to criminals and if you say it that way you will be viewed as a criminal instead of a victim.

In order to come out on the positive side you ARE going to have to give a statement to police at some point but do not give any statement until you have hired a lawyer. When police are involved in a shooting they do not give a statement for days or even weeks, we must follow the same rules. And be prepared to be handcuffed and taken to jail. Whether or not you make a statement is not going to change that. Nothing good can come from making a statement immediately after a stressful situation like a self defensive shooting. Another reason to wait is so you can make sure your statement is recorded with witnesses, such as your attorney, present.
This is good advice BUT I'll add one thing to consider. Personally, I WOULD tell 911 that the perpetrator has been shot and I need an ambulance immediately. Once the threat to you or your loved one's safety has been removed, you have a duty to attend to the person who was shot. As for the statement, that is VERY good advice. "Officer, I will be happy to fully cooperate once my council is present, please don't ask me again until counsel is here." Your statement (as well as witness statements) is what is going to determine if you are charged. Per an attorney who specializes in self-defense shootings (prior to attending a class he taught, I didn't even know that was a thing) this is the ONE case in criminal defense where a statement from the accused (you) MAY make sense early in the process. BUT as dolomite says, IN NO WAY make a statement until your lawyer is present.

Post Reply