Supressed home defense SBR???

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Dolomite_Supafly
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:14 am

Any way you shake it a defensive shooting is going to cost you financially. Even if it is ruled justified you will still need an attorney to deal with the wrongful death lawsuit. I would NEVER go before a judge without an attorney. And if you are charged criminally you are talking tens of thousands of dollars to defend yourself. If it is only a civil suit you are still probably looking at $5K-$10K to start a defense.

The civil suit is where the suppressor and hand loads will come into question. And it takes a lot less evidence to put you at fault.
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by RDA » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:28 am

QuietMike wrote:Handloads make it nearly impossible for labs to determine velocity.

http://www.john-ross.net/comments.php
All reloaders should be offended by the story at that link.

So let me get this right, reloaders are at greater risk if their load is too hot or too light? What, is this the Goldilocks syndrome?
cwo4uscgret wrote:I would not worry alot about reloads or not in a defensive shooting. I think that would be the least of my worries.
Agreed, I think the whole "reloads will subject you to so much more risk than factory loads" is a giant load of BS and largely Internet based myth.

Quite frankly, if there is added legal risk with using reloads (whether too hot or too light per the link above), you are in for a world of hurt period. A prosecuting attorney could question why you used a 12 gauge loaded with 00 Buck when a 1911 is perfectly adequate for home defense. If a 9mm is adequate, why use that 1911 manstopper? If a .380 is available, why use a 9mm? You have a baseball bat, that would be more humane than a gun? Why do you need a 30 round mag, 7 rounds is more than adequate? Why use a hollow point, a FMJ is less deadly? Why do own ten guns, are you a crazy gun nut?

afshirt
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by afshirt » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:42 am

Lots of internet rumor on this one. If it is a good shoot then it doesn't matter what you used. If it is a bad shoot then the type of bullet is the least of your worries. Most states (like the one I live in FL) has laws in place that if you are found not guilty criminally then they cannot pursue a civil suit in a self defense situation. If it is a clear case of self defense then chances are you wont even be charged.
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Dolomite_Supafly
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:11 am

No internet BS as far as I am concerned. I know and talk to the guy it happened to every week. We sit down and talk at least once a month. I consider him a great friend. He has more integrity than anyone I know and has been 100% honest in everything we have talked about.

He shot someone with a 10mm Glock that was loaded with bullets he had cast. He is a HUGE fan of cast bullets and probably one of a few people responsible for me getting into cast bullets. He said the presecutor tried to paint him as some sort of lunatic that went looking for a fight because he wanted to try his handloads. He said it scared him so bad that he only carries factory ammo now.
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by batman4706 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:29 am

Noise is a mute point in a defense shooting. I'm a retired LEO and while working dope got into a shooting situation. It was in side a 70's model Camaro, I fired 5 shots with a 45 Auto and never heard a shot.

I have a Hi Point carbine in 45 Auto next to my bed. It's reliable and if it gets tied up in an evidence locker for 2 years who cares?

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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:54 pm

batman4706 wrote:Noise is a mute point in a defense shooting. I'm a retired LEO and while working dope got into a shooting situation. It was in side a 70's model Camaro, I fired 5 shots with a 45 Auto and never heard a shot.

I have a Hi Point carbine in 45 Auto next to my bed. It's reliable and if it gets tied up in an evidence locker for 2 years who cares?
You may not hear it but the damage is still being done.
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by plant.one » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:05 pm

batman4706 wrote:Noise is a mute point in a defense shooting. I'm a retired LEO and while working dope got into a shooting situation. It was in side a 70's model Camaro, I fired 5 shots with a 45 Auto and never heard a shot.

I have a Hi Point carbine in 45 Auto next to my bed. It's reliable and if it gets tied up in an evidence locker for 2 years who cares?
^^ this is one of the reasons my go-to home defense is a maverick 88 loaded with 00 buck. If my $200 shotgun gets tied up in evidence. meh. thats the offical least of my worry's.


if SHTF bad enough that i need to grab my rifle.. worrying about what gets locked up in evidence is the last thing i'll be thinkin about.
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by gds » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:39 pm

there are a lot of things to consider as many have been mentioned. this is just my view.

My current go to guns for HD are a 5.56mm M4 16 inch I built with red dot and flashlight, loaded with 62gr silver bear HP. they have been reliable and effective in my guns. My pistol is a M1911 parts gun I bought several years ago added a rail for flashlight, and has been reliable and loaded with 230gr Winchester Hollow points.

My main carry gun is a M1911 commander size I built loaded with the same 230gr Wincheter hollow points. My daily carry, which actually may in fact be my main carry is a M&P Shield 9mm, in my pocket. It is loaded with 115gr HPs that are handloads. loaded in Remington cases with Remington HPs at Remington green box velocities.

I also at times carry a HP-35 copy with "handloads" I bought years ago at a gun show 124 gr HPs that have tested well in my non scientific tests.

As DS said there is enough anecdotal evidence to be concerned with using handloads in a defensive situation. Just as with using a suppressor, or SBR.

In the end it is your decision to make. I won't fault someone for using only factory. It makes perfect sense. I won't fault someone for using handloads, but I don't want them to do it without understanding what "could" happen.

A justifiable shooting is justified no matter what you are using. But that does not mean an overzealous prosecutor won't make your life more miserable then it already is. Nothing wrong with using a SBR or suppressor, just expect that even if you were found to be completely justified in the use of deadly force, your gun and or suppressor will be out of your possession for awhile.

I want to use my 300 blk SBR with can, with subsonic cast hollow points. And even though I believe that I live in a pretty good area as far as prosecutors, the reason I don't is because of the ever so small possibility of being prosecuted by an overzealous lawyer. and then the fact that my SBR and can will be out of my possession for an undetermined amount of time. Now I may end up getting some barnes black tip factory and using my 16 inch 300blk. Still would not want to loose it for a while, but can part with it for lot longer then I could part with my SBR and suppressor.

Now that having been said, when the dogs start barking I grab my 300 blk SBR with can, attached 200 plus lumens flashlight, loaded with my subsonic cast hollow points. If it is a coon or fox trying to get in the hen house or a stray dog creating havoc. easy quick quite put down. IF it happened to be a dirt bag trying to hurt my family. Well i would have to use what is in my hand.
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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by jwb47 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:04 pm

this issue comes up alot and it can be interpeted many ways . My personal feeling is all my guns are for hunting so if I do grab a rifle its going to have ammunition I use to hunt with which I load . I can see where some jackass lawyer could try to twist it around where you made devistating ammo or was a nut using an evil black rifle . But if you stop and think about it what if the rifle you use is one you built from parts then they could also say you built the weapon to be more deadly . its all a kind of cache 22. I personally had to deal with a ramrod states attorney for 18 months because I broke a guys jaw . Even though there were witness's that gave signed statements He kept dragging it out and saying save it for court . the judge tossed it out but I lost money because I had to take off work and only later did I find out my gun card was suspended so I had to go back to court 2 years later and have the judge quash the hold on my gun card . I lived in the communist state of illinois at that time.
like dolomite said its going to cost you money either way so be prepared .

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Re: Supressed home defense SBR???

Post by AlphaOperator » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:59 pm

I'm going to use what's most effective at protecting my family and myself.

If that means using an AR15 for SD/HD, so be it.

If that means using handloads, due in part because it's what I can afford/acquire vs factory, so be it.

The 2nd A is about using whatever means you deem necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

The answer is clear to me IMHO.

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