ATF just made me commit a federal felony!

[nolwark76]

Gotta love the government. I got my Form 1 back, after just 4 1/2 months!!!! and had to make a few corrections. I knew I would have to as the class 3 dealer helping me had never done a Form 1 before. Anyway, I fixed a few mistakes and then while on the phone, the lady (why are they all women working there?) said I need to list the actual length from buttstock to flash hider. I said it was currently a pistol and it did not have a buttstock on it. Did she want me to estimate the length based a similar styled lower and add that length to what my upper is? No, she wanted the actual length of the entire rifle as it will be assembled.

I didn't get frustrated with her as that would do no good. I had to completely restrain myself from going off on her that that would be a federal felony to have without my paperwork (tax stamp for all you who will want me to clarify) and I can't get my paperwork without putting it together and writing the actual length on the form to submit!

Needless to say, I got the correct length (see how I worded that?!) and the form is off to be approved. I found out a few other bummer things though. A specialist told me that I need my full name, first and last, as well as city and abreviated state engraved on the firearm. She said I could put it on the barrel or the receiver. Ok, I knew about the reciever but then she said I couldn't put a redi-mag in place to cover up that engraved info. Oh well.

[redfernsoljah]

On an AR style it has to be on the Receiver. You can get it in front of the magwell which would not affect your readimag. Also the engraving would be whatever is shown on your application for the form 1. If it is indeed first and last name that is what you would put on there as well as where you had the city and state on the form 1. Alot of positive reviews for Orion Engraving. I would recommend taking a look at where they can engrave from there website.

Good Luck. A pain sometimes but totally worth it in the end.

[BC98]

Did she want me to estimate the length based a similar styled lower and add that length to what my upper is? No, she wanted the actual length of the entire rifle as it will be assembled.

Is this the only AR you own? It seems fairly simple to measure your pistol from the tip of flashhider to the back of the lower receiver and then measure the receiver extension/stock length on another AR from the back of the lower receiver to the end of the stock. Add the two together and your done. No "federal felony"...

[nolwark76]

My point was that I asked her if she wanted the exact length of the rifle as it would be when the Form 1 was complete. Yes, she did. I never said a word as I didn't want to keep going down that line but I just thought it funny that she didn't want it any other way than exactly as it would be assembled but that would be an NFA violation without the paperwork I was on the phone with her to get approved. She didn't seem to get the catch-22 situation I was seeing. I realize there is a way to get that exact measurement but what she was saying was to put it together (in violation of the NFA) and put the exact length on the form which would make it legal to have in the configuration as to get that exact length.

It made me chuckle on the inside.

[Klem]

So what are you saying?... for the 20 seconds you've slipped the butt on to take a measurement, the authorities come through the window, guns drawn. Some slip on the paperwork you are filling out, while others trip on the extended tape measure....giving you time to 'melt away, into the shadows'.

[Dolomite_Supafly]

People get worked up over such little things. Were you really going to cuss this lady out because she asked for a length. You should have, it would have worked out better for the rest of us.

Silly stuff.

Dolomite

[nolwark76]

Don't read into this post people. All I'm saying is that it's funny that to fill out the form correctly, as per her instructions, it requires a person to assemble the firearm in an illegal way until such paperwork is finished.

No, I was not going to cuss her out. I should re-phrase "going off" on her as what I meant was pointing out how stupid that is to have someone knowingly do that and have a discussion about it. I know better than to mess with the person holding most of the cards when it comes to NFA approval. I don't make a habit of getting assertive or aggressive with people unless it is justified and all other attempts to communicate have failed.

I did not think federal agents were going to swoop in and catch me measuring my rifle anymore than ripping the tag off my mattress.

I was just pointing out that the way the ATF lady wanted me to fix my mistake on my Form 1 was to configure my firearm in a way that would knowingly be illegal without the Form 1 approved, which couldn't be until I did configure it illegally and measure it.

It just struck me as odd. Course, there are a million things our government does that is odd.

[BobinNC]

...... than ripping the tag off my mattress.......

You ripped the tag off your mattress!!!!!! Now your really are in trouble....The Black Helicopters are on the way, buddy. Hands against the wall, assume the position and surrender peaceably.

Actually, they are now using pilot-less drones, and the best thing about those is, they scared all the black helicopters away...

Be good now...

[20X11]

Remember...there is a factor of "intent" in the regs. Since you were following alphabet soup instructions with no other intent to create an SBR(nor ignorance of the regs), you were fine, and she was fine in asking. You committed no crime, and she didn't ask you too.

[texflip]

I don't see why you couldn't get the exact measurement without assembling the upper to the lower. There are my ways to get te OAL without coupling the upper and lower.

Lay the upper on the lower upside down
Measure the upper, measure the lower, measure the over lap, subtract the over lap.
Place the stock under the buffer tube.
Measure the length off the lower then add the barrel length.
Put a non-sbr upper on the lower then subtract the difference of the sbr barrel.