Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

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ponzer04
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by ponzer04 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:26 am

bangbangping wrote:My answer would be none of the above. The only advantage for a rifle is that you only have to get one stamp instead of possibly two. An integrally suppressed pistol is just stupid.

The big disadvantages are that you're stuck with that single configuration and can't use the suppressor on other weapons. Personally, I've been through half a dozen 300 BLK barrels in various lengths and use my 30 cal suppressor on multiple rifles. Can't imagine paying a premium to be stuck in a single configuration with a single purpose suppressor.

Another disadvantage is that you can't test bullet stability before shooting suppressed.
The Spike's Tactical Compressor and Q- Honey Badger are both 2 stamp guns with removable silencers.
Last edited by ponzer04 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ponzer04
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by ponzer04 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:36 am

Purpose Built: a firearm designed to be fired suppressed, be that 2 stamps or integrally silenced.

My determining factor when choosing the Spike's Tactical Compressor years ago was this idea. I didn't have to research the gun I wanted, then the silencer, then how they work together just to find out my choice sucked. The compressor was a package deal so if it did work it was the fault of the whole thing and warrantied instead of my crappy research and choice.

Also the thought process would be that purpose built would go along with things like gas to the face midigation or not needing an adjustable gas block or this or that part swap yo function. I wanted dummy proof.

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John A.
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by John A. » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:00 am

ponzer04 wrote: So here we are on a Forum to help with decisions like this and you say just roll the dice, they are all the same dispite vey much not being the same.

I did pick one and I stated that. I bought the Spike's Tactical Compressor years ago. I still say it was the best choice then. I am asking if it is still the BEST, what else is out there? In other opinions was the Spike's never the best choice?

Choosing today I would probably go Honey Badger: I am pretty sure it is quieter than the spikes, as short, lighter, and currently costs less if you stick to billet.

What are opinions as to why one option is beter than the other?

If someone else was looking today for this concept which would you choose and why?
Do you want to know why someone looked at your list in the OP and didn't answer which was the best?

I'm betting it's because no one has time behind all of them. Kinda hard to say Option E is THE BEST gun if you've only fired one or two of them. And that's not even getting into the discussion of why.

I think it was me that said the Leonidas was the best blk upper right now because it's the most quiet, and still maintaining the accuracy levels that a blk should. And 1 stamped uppers don't bother me.

Does that mean it's the best host?

Hell no.

AR's are loud. If you want accuracy and quiet and more versatility in how you load, look for a bolt gun. Of course, that is probably not what you're looking for since nothing in the OP said to me you were even looking at a bolt gun. Everything was AR related.

Best for one thing, doesn't mean best for another thing.

That's why I said to just pick one because all the ones on the list are going to shoot, and they're going to muffle the sound some. To me, that is mostly where their similarities begin and end. Just a different design to achieve the same thing as the other ones.

If you own the spikes and are happy with it, great.
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by golfindia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:48 am

ponzer04 wrote:
So you choose 9mm overy 300blk? Why?

I was hoping for this to get fun?

Why can't you play along? Not even a sentence on why you say Leonidas? That just sounds fanboy"y". Or why the other option are better. Are the more economical? Quality? Accuracy? Quiet?
I didnt choose anything over anything, boss. Never bought a factory AR in my life, never will. I make my own cans. I know a little bit, enough to recognize a good design when I see one. Leonidas is a good design. Never used one. Never will.

I wouldnt pay money for Spikes overpriced garbage if they were the last company on earth. You are welcome to spend your money on whatever brand you want. I'm done.

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dellet
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by dellet » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:30 am

Ponzer,

Before anyone can really help you, you need to define “ your purpose”.

Your original post leaned heavily on accuracy, other times you brought up sound. Reliability was barely touched on.

You keep throwing out “purpose built”, but don’t give it any meaning.

The Spikes and Daniel defense were built with the “purpose” of separating the uninformed from their money. A bunch of off the shelf parts were assembled in a package for sale to people that did not want to think. They made it look cool and marketed it as “operator approved”.

The Leonidas was built with the “purpose” of being quiet and reliable. Most people wouldn’t say they achieved their goal. The problem becomes what lower do you attach it to. Many good barrels get a bad reputation when put on a crappy lower.

The LMT and the Q were built with the “purpose” to win military contracts. As was the original AAC MPW. This will create the biggest number of compromises, but likely the highest rate of reliability.

If I were making the choice, it would be between the LMT and the Q. They were designed and built for the “purpose” that all the others are marketing as copies of the idea.

Of those two I would lean on the Q products. The designer there has had his hands in many of the best Honey Badger style rifles out there and he was tied by corporate lawyers and investors. Back out on his own, he was not limited in any way.

I have seen but not shot Q products, for it’s purpose, they are built well with quality components, fit and finish.

On a side note, my bolt actions have Timeny Calvin Elite triggers. Jewell makes a much finer trigger and that Is also the problem. There were enough reports of matches being won with Calvin elite’s simply because they were the last ones shooting in harsh conditions, that they are worth using. I personally have kept shooting after dumping 25 grains of powder in the trigger assembly and can confirm it works better than my Geissele under the same condition in an AR. :oops:

I’ll throw this out there one more time, none of this will matter if you use factory ammo. It will all be loud, dirty, reasonably accurate and reliable. To make any of those rifle choices reach their potential, it will be custom loads. Shooting subs and supers, or marketing a rifle that does, will always have certain compromises that will rob potential performance. So until “purpose for use” is defined, “purpose built” will have no meaning.
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by bangbangping » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:51 am

ponzer04 wrote:The Spike's Tactical Compressor and Q- Honey Badger are both 2 stamp guns with removable silencers.
Yes, they are. I looked at the last three and misunderstood what you were looking for. Sorry. Still would go with "none of the above".

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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by ponzer04 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:58 pm

John A. wrote:If you own the spikes and are happy with it, great.
I've been very clear that I do own the Spikes and that I am happy with it. The purpose of this post was not to stroke my own ego. Years ago, when I was looking, I would have loved to have found a post like this this, showing all of the options in one place, where people givve opinions or personal testimonies.

Also, I'm discussing a very specific niche (in semi auto), which, no, your bolt gun does not fall into. Unless there is a bolt-action silencer combo. Tell me about it maybe someone will want to know about it when they search this later.
golfindia wrote:I didnt choose anything over anything, boss.
You literally did. You stated "Leonidas is arguably the best 300blk suppressor design out there" followed by "My ideal 'purpose built' model would be this guy:" a 9mm.

What is it about the Spikes that makes you consider it "overpriced garbage"? I'm trying not to fanboy but it seems that you're trying to anti-fanboy- hating for the sake of hating, without giving reason. I couldn't care less that you don't like my gun but, in a forum for discussion, you should be capable of explaining why.

dellet-

Aside from your repetition of the quote "purpose built", I really appreciate the information given in your comment. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

As for my "purpose for use", my personal purpose, when I was looking was a convenient package, warranty, hearing safe, and short. "Purpose built" was defined in my title- "SBR/silencer combo". That's it. I really wasn't going any deeper than that. Just a rifle that was purposely built with a silencer.

I do have to question your comment on the Spikes, though. What about it is a bunch of "off the shelf parts"? Spikes uses their own upper, lower, trigger, bcg, gas tube, barrel profile, unique ambi design, etc. Maybe you could elaborate on what you meant, because I'm failing to understand.

Lastlymy since you touched on ammo, I can get near MOA with SigfFactory ammo and sub MOA with Hornady factory ammo. This is with a magpod and bench for stability only- othing like a lead sled or mechanically held. So, the gun can certainly out shoot me and, in my opinion, that's enough.
bangbangping wrote:Still would go with "none of the above".
Why is that? What else is out there for a rifle/silencer combo that you would prefer?

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dellet
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by dellet » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:55 pm

I won't go deep, but make very broad statements without any intent to judge quality.

The Spikes "package" as being purpose built does not meet my definition of a rifle designed to be fired suppressed, unless it comes with a disclaimer that it will not cycle sub sonic ammo without the suppressor.

Let's look at the most basic problem, gas port size. Since it will be sold commercially, it will have a port sized to allow the worst ammo ever produced function without a suppressor. This ammo will be loud, dirty and provide lots of gas for you to deal with. if you were to reduce the port size 10%, and only fire suppressed, it would go a long way toward mitigating that one issue as well as reduce noise to the shooters ear significantly.

Spikes, as far as I know did not design a barrel specifically for the compressor/suppressor. Therefore it is not purpose built. Most all commercially available rifles will fall into this category. Noveske might, simply because they used to carry the disclaimer of not functioning without.

As far as I know, no part of the Spikes build is any different than a model designed not to fire suppressed. It has up grades, but can you name one that helps suppressed fire?

This might give a better idea of my thinking towards a purpose built, SBR and ammo. That might lead to more discussion that can help you.
viewtopic.php?f=128&t=98869
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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by ponzer04 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:28 pm

dellet wrote:The Spikes "package" as being purpose built does not meet my definition of a rifle designed to be fired suppressed...
But it was literally designed with the suppressor and, if you call and ask, they will tell you not to fire it without the silencer attached, as it was designed to be used together.

The barrel is particular to the Compressor, perhaps only in profile. (I'll add a photo) I don't know what the exact gas port size is.

As far as upgrades that help suppressed fire, I don't actually specifically know. No adjustable gas block so it does not have a provision to optimize suppressed or unsuppressed- the Compressor chose silence. It was designed to fire as a complete package with a silencer, so I am assuming the gas port size, gas tube, bolt carrier, and buffer, were all designed purposely to work with the silencer. Also, there are vent holes in the upper to help get gas out of the reciever before blowing in your face.

Just a couple additional reasons I chose the way I did: 11.75 inches of barrel length with extended endcap on compressor which has 8.1 inches of barrel and 6.25 inches of silencer.

8.1+6.25= 14.35

Overall barrel length is less than both added.

And is hearing safe.

Image

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Re: Purpose built SBR/Silencer combo

Post by ponzer04 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:40 am

Here is a look at the barrel stuff with no handguard on someone else's compressor

Image

Here is my compressor shooting a variety of ammo with a variety of endcap options
https://youtu.be/bWHOJb_mZzQ
https://youtu.be/LbOSI1HUqEo

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