WORST. NEWS. EVER.

[TreeTopFlier]

Wow, that's a heck of a story! I would guess this has happened many times before just because it can take so long to get nfa items approved. I think if it was me I would call the ATF if I didn't hear from the owner...if something shady happened I think they would want to secure those items.

[John A.]

SOT licenses are good for 1 year, beginning and ending July 1.

So, even if he closes today, technically, his SOT is still valid until then.

I have heard of things like this happening, and atf generally allows an FFL/SOT to complete purchases that are pending even after the license has expired in good faith.

Unless the SOT is a total dickhead, because technically they are his, until ATF says they are not, but once they are approved and transferred in the computer to you, they're yours.

And if he doesn't give them to you at that point, he would be in illegal possession of ..................

You follow me?

I would make contact with him to ask how you may contact him when you get your approvals. That would be the most important thing at this point.

The fact that he delivered you a note on your door tells me he's trying to do that right thing, but he just missed you.

[BadKarmaZeroSix]

SOT licenses are good for 1 year, beginning and ending July 1.

So, even if he closes today, technically, his SOT is still valid until then.

I have heard of things like this happening, and atf generally allows an FFL/SOT to complete purchases that are pending even after the license has expired in good faith.

Unless the SOT is a total dickhead, because technically they are his, until ATF says they are not, but once they are approved and transferred in the computer, they're yours.

And if he doesn't give them to you, he would be in illegal possession of ..................

You follow me?

I would make contact with him to ask how you may contact him when you get your approvals. That would be the most important thing at this point.

The fact that he delivered you a note on your door tells me he's trying to do that right thing, but he just missed you.

Got ya...hope it's that simple...


Ok, couple of things happened in the last hour.
Firstly, the FFL owner called me back. He told me not to worry, that the transfers would continue and the stamps, when approved, would go to his house (which he said was a secondary address on SOT). Once received, he would contact me. Like i said, i kinda know this guy, not really close, but not sure how much to believe it's just that simple.

Secondly, a different SOT that i have done business with in the past responded via email. I msgd him as a "have you ever heard of this and what do you recommend" measure. He said, if required, he would be more than happy to transfer the items FORM 3 to him and resubmit new FORM 4s, if necessary.

I'm waiting to hear from ATF to confirm what the SOT told me, whether or not it is accurate, and get their input into the situation as well. Still nervous, but there is at leadt a glimmer of hope. Thanks for the support, guys.

[BadKarmaZeroSix]

Ok, further update. I think i was the first call to the NFA branch at 7:02 am EST, and i had a very brief but definitive-sounding answer. I simply stated "I currently have two Form 4s at an SOT which is closing immediately. I spoke to the owner and he told me that even though he is losing his FFL, the transfers would still be completed and he could legally receive the stamps and turn them over to me. Is this accurate information?"

RESPONSE: Yes sir

ME: So there is nothing for me to be worried about as far as losing my items?

RESPONSE: No sir

Yup, that was about the total amount the guy said. I do feel a lot better now, having spoken to the owner and the NFA branch. Still not feeling TOTALLY comfortable with it, but much better than i did Saturday.

[golfindia]

I don't think you should have any trouble. Even though the place went out of business, the owner will still have to continue to abide by ATF rules and record keeping requirements of their license . You can't get just instantly "opt out" of all the NFA requirements because you close a shop, doing so would result in serious issues for the owner. The ATF can still do inspections for some period of time afterward, and I'd guess that going out of business would raise a flag. The real problems in this situation arise from non NFA stuff. I've seen some pretty nasty feuds over consignment guns and stuff that had been ordered and paid for in advance. If you submitted a form 4 for an item, it's going to be tough for anyone to obsconde with it, without breaking serious NFA laws.

[John A.]

This is something that comes up more regularly than many people think.

There are times when things are beyond the control of the shop owner. Diagnosed with terminal illness that would require them to be be away from the shop, unexpected death, family matters, just wanting a career change, other reasons, etc.

I had my FFL's for 9 years. Enjoyed it. Still enjoy guns and stuff. But made a lot more money doing other things.

[keith13b]

This happened to me. Go directly to your local ATF branch. Mine was only a mile from my house, so I called to let them know I was stopping by and walked in with a copy of my purchase, and a copy of the Form 3 which I got from the original shop I purchased from online. The ATF is aware of the FFL's that expire. When that happens, they do an inventory. As long as you have a copy of the form 3 with the serial and the receipt showing you as the purchaser - the AFT will allow the transfer to complete. The good news - you pay no transfer fee. You do not pick it up from the old FFL, The local sheriff/PD ATF agent will pick it up. I had to walk out of the sheriffs office with a suppressor after they handed it to me with the paperwork. Felt quite odd. I was just happy it turned out okay. Many nights of no sleep worrying until I went to the ATF. Ironically, the ATF knows very little about the NFA. Good luck.

Edit: The local FFL received the Form 3 but never filled out a Form 4. I had to fill out the Form 4, the Sherriff's office had the expired FFL sign it as a person to person transfer rather than transferring though an FFL. The ATF then sent it straight to the top at the NFA and I had the paperwork back in a flash.