300BlkTalk

All things 300 AAC BLACKOUT
It is currently Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:29 am

All times are UTC-04:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:43 pm 
Offline
Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:19 pm
Posts: 70
Dellet-
A single sold barrel is far from the goal of this post for it to be relevant to a first time NFA'r there would have to be far more parts to help out. I did look at the barrels alone and it does indeed say that. That is not really a purpose built sbr/silencer combo though.

Fun place to go if you were building though


As to the compressor and flush parts they are not as flush as the pic looks. The ping pong paddle is easily slapped to release the bolt from hold open and the ambi mag release is fairly low profile and does require some effort to push (Which is a positive for a mag release).


Top
   
BulletFlight for Android
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:02 am 
Offline
Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:19 pm
Posts: 70
rebel wrote:
I "purpose built" my SBR for shooting subs and supers. Morphed over time, AGB. worked a nice trigger myself. Not a high dollar 9" barrel but very accurate. I liked building it, like owning it and don't give a happy flying sh&t if anyone else likes it - kind of John A's stance here.
You seem to want to go factory where a lot of fellows here have built their stuff ground up. That's my suggestion and like golfindia, I have no desire to argue the point. You seem to have done a lot of reading, find someone with the weapons you seem to prefer and take them out for a drive.
My build today, after shooting blackout for 6 years - the SBR bolt, two stamp, probably in a Tikka ( damned NZlnders :mrgreen: )



What is AGB?

Why did you spend the time writing that post and not talk about a combo package or list the details of your build.

Yes when I got mine I was wanting to go factory because I saw the honey badger and the PowerPoint getting passed around talking it up and wanted it but it wasn't available. That had an sbr/silencer combo and I had a very hard time finding info other than go try them and zero info on if you get this gun and this silencer it works great. Not all people want to build.

It really is not easy to "just" find stuff like a compressor or honey badger out for a drive. For example I am quite sure I have the only SBR for 80 miles let alone an sbr/silencer combo in 300blk. That is why people come to places like this to get info and I suck when you are only met with.... well go try it or f'it roll the dice and get one they all suck.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:11 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:55 pm
Posts: 708
I don't really care which gun you use.

FWIW, my blackout is an integrally suppressed AR.

But the questions you asked earlier in the topic

which is most accurate

which is most quiet


No doubt you can have a quiet and accurate AR. I never implied that you couldn't.

But you can always have a more quiet bolt action. Anyone that knows much of anything about firearm suppressors wouldn't even try to dispute that. Yet, for some reason, you are.

And they can also use a wider variety of powders because you don't have to worry about making enough extra pressure to cycle the bolt. There are many guys here who have loads that are much more quiet than what an AR (semi) will ever be capable of because it burns quickly, and results in quieter.

Also, you keep going back to forgotten weapons for some reason. Probably because of the welrod comments you made earlier I guess.

If that's the case, the welrod was a purpose built suppressed gun. As was the Delisle carbine. They were made to be the epitome of quiet to perform a specific task and fill a specific role and accurate enough at their intended distances to get the job done.

And they succeeded.

That is historical fact. Get over it.

_________________
When those totally ignorant of firearms make laws, you end up with totally ignorant firearm laws.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:45 am 
Offline
Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:19 pm
Posts: 70
"John A." I don't really care which gun you use.

FWIW, my blackout is an integrally suppressed AR. then why didn't you just list your build out instead of ranting about how crappy all my options were?

But the questions you asked earlier in the topic

which is most accurate

which is most quiet

nope definitely ended the initial post with " How would you people rate these? Are there others out there, are they better, cheaper?" As to try and guide the conversation to relevant places of how you could potentially quantify your idea of best

No doubt you can have a quiet and accurate AR. I never implied that you couldn't.

But you can always have a more quiet bolt action. Anyone that knows much of anything about firearm suppressors wouldn't even try to dispute that. Yet, for some reason, you are.not disputing that I fully understand that a bolt gun can get quiter and have stated that many times. I said I wasn't interested in bolt gun. I also said for the purpose of my most as pertaining to new purchasers bolt guns may be relevant and have asked multiple times for bolt gun silencer combos that work well together

And they can also use a wider variety of powders because you don't have to worry about making enough extra pressure to cycle the bolt. There are many guys here who have loads that are much more quiet than what an AR (semi) will ever be capable of because it burns quickly, and results in quieter. cool beans how is ammo relevant to sbr/silencer combo?

Also, you keep going back to forgotten weapons for some reason. Probably because of the welrod comments you made earlier I guess.ahh... you brought up these weapons not me, and there is a youtube channel literally called forgotten weapon that has featured them

If that's the case, the welrod was a purpose built suppressed gun. As was the Delisle carbine. They were made to be the epitome of quiet to perform a specific task and fill a specific role and accurate enough at their intended distances to get the job done.

And they succeeded.

That is historical fact. Get over it. I didn't dispute that as a fact... they are not in production and not 300blk


Last edited by ponzer04 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:45 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm
Posts: 5545
ponzer04 wrote:
Dellet-
A single sold barrel is far from the goal of this post for it to be relevant to a first time NFA'r there would have to be far more parts to help out. I did look at the barrels alone and it does indeed say that. That is not really a purpose built sbr/silencer combo though.

Fun place to go if you were building though


As to the compressor and flush parts they are not as flush as the pic looks. The ping pong paddle is easily slapped to release the bolt from hold open and the ambi mag release is fairly low profile and does require some effort to push (Which is a positive for a mag release).


There comes a point where words and time are wasted. This thread has gone well beyond that. I don’t know if you are intentionally missing the points or just can’t grasp them.

I mentioned the gas port that Noveske uses as something to look for in a purpose built suppressed SBR. Noveske does sell complete SBR’s and they are designed to be shot suppressed. They were not on your list of potentials, so I did not address them.

I mentioned the controls of the compressor because most peoples intended purpose of a suppressed SBR is ease of use under pressure. Making things like a mag release harder to access is counter productive.

Spikes did a lot counter productive costly adds to the compressor that have absolutely no benefit. Maybe some of those things have changed over time and I’m not aware.

They went to great lengths to flute the barrel and add cooling gizmos to the gas system to enhance cooling. Then they covered it all up with a heat shield between the barrel and handgaurd that will keep the heat trapped.

They started with an M16 bolt carrier and lightened it to the point it became unreliable with supers, causing them to need an H3 buffer. The operating system is under weight and over gassed. That’s a bad combination.

The only thing they did that was not tacticool and showed some sort of benefit to a dedicated suppressed SBR, was add capacity to the suppressor without length, by using an over barrel design. This saved a couple inches in length, while providing incredibly average or below reduction in decibels and no savings in weight, probably even increasing it.

The reason I don’t own a Spikes compressor is it does not fit my purpose of using a suppressed SBR. The best thing about it from the specs I have seen is the buffer and even that is too heavy for anything chambered in 300 Blackout that is properly configured..

_________________
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:18 am 
Offline
Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:19 pm
Posts: 70
Dellet-

There comes a point where words and time are wasted. This thread has gone well beyond that. I am not sure it has I don’t know if you are intentionally missing the points or just can’t grasp them. you have chosen to not grasp the goal of the OP

I mentioned the gas port that Noveske uses as something to look for in a purpose built suppressed SBR. Noveske does sell complete SBR’s and they are designed to be shot suppressedwhich?. They were not on your list of potentials, so I did not address them. literal first line of the OP " So, probing around- I own a Spike's Tactical Compressor and am curious about other combo packages out there. " very clearly I state that I am curious about ANY other combo out there! So who isn't reading who? Also I have edited the OP to reflect the Noveske. Also you could very easily use the Internet which you are on to ad links none of the Noveske complete guns with short barrels carry the disclaimer of will not fire without can that is only on the barrels WHICH I ADMITTED MY IGNORANCE TOO.


I mentioned the controls of the compressor because most peoples intended purpose of a suppressed SBR is ease of use under pressure. Making things like a mag release harder to access is counter productive. mag release harder to access? The ambi side adds a whole new side to drop the mag from and the normal side is no harder to operate than any other AR (it is perhaps a bit taller of a shroud on tHE sIDE that DosNt get touched by the person using the gun)

Spikes did a lot counter productive costly adds to the compressor that have absolutely no benefit. Maybe some of those things have changed over time and I’m not aware.

They went to great lengths to flute the barrel and add cooling gizmos to the gas system to enhance cooling. Then they covered it all up with a heat shield between the barrel and handgaurd that will keep the heat trapped. and allow you to hold the rifle for longer... that was the trade off for the heat shield. If you find it redundant or dumb, it is removable

They started with an M16 bolt carrier and lightened it to the point it became unreliable with supers, causing them to need an H3 buffer. The operating system is under weight and over gassed. That’s a bad combination. so they made the buffer bcg combo the same weight overall as standard bcg and h2?? Now there was a reason for that too according to spikes it is to allow the end user to TUNE the gun as they see fit without messing with the gas block. You can add weight by using a full bcg or take weight with a buffer

The only thing they did that was not tacticool and showed some sort of benefit to a dedicated suppressed SBR, was add capacity to the suppressor without length, by using an over barrel design. This saved a couple inches in length, while providing incredibly average or below reduction in decibels and no savings in weight, probably even increasing it.I knocked the compressor on overall weight and as being just at hearing safe myself originally

The reason I don’t own a Spikes compressor is it does not fit my purpose of using a suppressed SBR. The best thing about it from the specs I have seen is the buffer and even that is too heavy for anything chambered in 300 Blackout that is properly configured.. how is it too heavy if it runs flawless with any factory ammo? The buffing system is too heavy?? So they left the reciprocating mass the same and it is too heavy?


I talk so much about the Spike's because that is what I own and know. Also it really seem to hit a whole lot of people in the I HAVE to talk trash buttons


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:03 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm
Posts: 5545
ponzer04 wrote:
Dellet-

There comes a point where words and time are wasted. This thread has gone well beyond that. I am not sure it has I don’t know if you are intentionally missing the points or just can’t grasp them. you have chosen to not grasp the goal of the OP

That is complete and utter bullshit. I went to great lengths to find out what exactly you were looking for in a suppressed, SBR package. You asked for a “purpose” built package, but simply refuse to define the purpose. In short, you mocked my attempt to help you.

I mentioned the gas port that Noveske uses as something to look for in a purpose built suppressed SBR. Noveske does sell complete SBR’s and they are designed to be shot suppressedwhich?. They were not on your list of potentials, so I did not address them. literal first line of the OP " So, probing around- I own a Spike's Tactical Compressor and am curious about other combo packages out there. " very clearly I state that I am curious about ANY other combo out there! So who isn't reading who? Also I have edited the OP to reflect the Noveske. Also you could very easily use the Internet which you are on to ad links none of the Noveske complete guns with short barrels carry the disclaimer of will not fire without can that is only on the barrels WHICH I ADMITTED MY IGNORANCE TOO.
your original criteria was a rifle/suppressor combination, one stop shopping, Noveske does not offer that, nor do many other manufacturers of high quality products. That’s like saying you want the best meal in town, but will only eat from a bowl.

I mentioned the controls of the compressor because most peoples intended purpose of a suppressed SBR is ease of use under pressure. Making things like a mag release harder to access is counter productive. mag release harder to access? The ambi side adds a whole new side to drop the mag from and the normal side is no harder to operate than any other AR (it is perhaps a bit taller of a shroud on tHE sIDE that DosNt get touched by the person using the gun)

As the pictures I posted show, one side is completely recessed, the other guarded. That’s a no go for me and does nothing to enhance the suitability to shoot suppressed, your original question.

Spikes did a lot counter productive costly adds to the compressor that have absolutely no benefit. Maybe some of those things have changed over time and I’m not aware.

They went to great lengths to flute the barrel and add cooling gizmos to the gas system to enhance cooling. Then they covered it all up with a heat shield between the barrel and handgaurd that will keep the heat trapped. and allow you to hold the rifle for longer... that was the trade off for the heat shield
allowing the barrel to heat more, so you can hold it longer, and increase the chances of a malfunction, is not an option I would be interested in.

They started with an M16 bolt carrier and lightened it to the point it became unreliable with supers, causing them to need an H3 buffer. The operating system is under weight and over gassed. That’s a bad combination. so they made the buffer bcg combo the same weight overall as standard bcg and h2?? Now there was a reason for that too according to spikes it is to allow the end user to TUNE the gun as they see fit without messing with the gas block. You can add weight by using a full bcg or take weight with a buffer
No different than any other AR out there as far as weight adjustment. Not only will drilling holes in a carrier allow it to dissipate heat faster, it will also heat up faster. In an enclosed system, like a carrier in an upper, that heat will be transferred into the upper receiver. Any benefit is arguable.

The only thing they did that was not tacticool and showed some sort of benefit to a dedicated suppressed SBR, was add capacity to the suppressor without length, by using an over barrel design. This saved a couple inches in length, while providing incredibly average or below reduction in decibels and no savings in weight, probably even increasing it.I knocked the compressor on overall weight and as being just at hearing safe myself originally

The reason I don’t own a Spikes compressor is it does not fit my purpose of using a suppressed SBR. The best thing about it from the specs I have seen is the buffer and even that is too heavy for anything chambered in 300 Blackout that is properly configured.. how is it too heavy if it runs flawless with any factory ammo? The buffing system is too heavy?? So they left the reciprocating mass the same and it is too heavy?
Find me an actual weight of the operating system, then we can compare. While your at please provide the test results at -40 degrees, 20,000 feet, 120 degrees and full of sand. If they wanted to increase suppressed performance, they could have simply dialed back the gas. Less heat, less recoil, less gas.


I talk so much about the Spike's because that is what I own and know. Also it really seem to hit a whole lot of people in the I HAVE to talk trash buttons

Not talking trash, simply stating where the product missed the mark for me to consider it. If it works fine for your purpose, which seems to be more about appearance, bells and whistles and paid magazine reviews, you made a great choice.


From Noveske faq page. This applies both to their barrels sold over the counter, and their rifles, which oddly enough, use their barrels.
Quote:
What is 300BLK?

The Noveske 300 AAC BLACKOUT is designed to run optimally firing both subsonic suppressed and supersonic unsuppressed. This barrel is tuned to lock back on the last round using subsonic 220 and 208 grain ammunition with a sound suppressor. The firearm may not lock back with subsonic 220 and 208 grain ammunition without a sound suppressor. Also, the subsonic 300 BLK ammunition is more susceptible to a malfunction due to carbon fouling and adverse conditions than supersonic ammunition. The barrel is tuned to operate correctly with the back pressure provided by the AAC 762-SDN-6 using an H2 buffer, or a Surefire 762K suppressor and an H buffer. In the development of this barrel, we found evidence that the suppressor may require a symmetrical baffle stack as found in the AAC Cyclone K, 762-SDN6, and Surefire 762K suppressor. Suppressors which cause off axis turbulence, such as those with K type baffles, may cause baffle strikes and/or point of impact shift, and may damage your suppressor. Noveske Rifleworks LLC will not be responsible for damage or injury under ANY circumstances. Consult you suppressor manufacturer to determine if your suppressor is suitable for this application.

I would say that is a pretty narrow window, of a purpose built product.

_________________
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:41 pm 
Offline
Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:19 pm
Posts: 70
Dellet- perhaps they should make that clear on their sbr's pages like they do on the barrels page. That would be a bit missleading. It is dumb that you have to go to frequently asked questions to get that info. They don't offer the sbr with the silencer unless I missed that at least they mention in the barrel section which silencers should work with the barrel that too should be with the sbr page. They just have the one stamp gun which is cool.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4

All times are UTC-04:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited