When will something be done?

[VENT625]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/06/23 ... us-purity/


This crap is going on and our biggest concern today is whether or not to remove the Confederate flag? If this were 1944, I guarantee these ass clown wouldn't be around for long. I cant wait until we get a president with balls to do something. Problem is, that may be awhile!!!!!

[VinnAY]

One of my African friends, a great man I served with, is having a straight up meltdown because I pointed out the simple fact that when you can make up a reason to ban a confederate battle flag, pointing out that it is NOT a flag of the confederacy nor ever flew over a "slave nation", that you can ban the US Flag for the same reason. I'm sure Native Americans can take issue with injustices levied under the US flag, but this guy is so consumed with irrational hate that he can't see straight.

[300Blk]

I don't think anyone is talking about banning the flag - just whether or not it should fly on government property and whether or not stores think it will help or hurt their business to sell it.

Lyndsey Graham said that SC has to remove the flag, and he went on to clarify this was only because a racist killer embraced the flag. He said "Make no bones about it - if not for the killer, the flag should still be flying."

This is the EXACT opposite of how things should be decided.

I would not let a druggie racist with some level of mental illness force what happens for everyone. If the flag is bad, it should have been down before this. If the flag is ok, then it should not come done even though a killer embraced it.

To his defense, he is running for President, and probably misleading about his reason for removing it. When he says "The state will be boycotted," that translates to "I will have less chance of being President."

I am all for states rights, but not when the state is trying to deprive people of liberty. I do not support the right of a state to decide that slavery is ok. I do not support the right of a state to decide that gun control is ok, as the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

As far as I can tell, the Confederacy rebelled because the Federal Government was telling them it was not ok to keep people as slaves. So if the rebellion was in fact over slavery, and in the flag is the symbol of that rebellion, then why glorify the rebellion with flying the flag on government property?

I think the counter-argument is people who say "Yeah, slavery was bad, and it was wrong to fight to uphold it, but to me that is obvious and the flag symbolizes the spirit of independence in general."

By the way, to me the flag is just something I grew up seeing on the Dukes of Hazard and I am not offended by it, but I would not be offended by any flag, as symbols don't hurt me.

[Dr.Phil]

Please do not misunderstand me.
I'm not left nor do I think that anyone other than SC citizens should decide what flags are flown.

But...
In the case of SC, that flag was not flown until 1961.
That flag is not the confederate flag either.
It is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
There is huge lack of understanding regarding this issue.

South Carolina first flew the flag in 1961 as sign of protest to the Federal Equal Rights Laws.
Not because of a deep sense of heritage to their confederate roots.
That being said, what SC does is really none of my damn business.
The thought of this issue and gun control being attached to this tragedy makes me sick.

*EDITED TO ADD*
The majority of "gun control" laws were also established as a means to keep gun out of the hands of freed slaves by Democrat law makers.
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm
It amazes me that this is almost never brought up.

As to other points made on this thread, I agree that if you ban / remove any flag, there is a dangerous precedent established.
This really is a First Amendment & State's Rights issue and is amazing that the national conversation has been shifted to such an unimportant matter.

My Mother-in-law recently asked me what I thought about the flag and the current news coverage.
I thought about it for a moment and told her that it comes down to fundamental freedoms that exist in America.
It is the absolute right of any State or individual to display what they want.
In America, you have the right to be an asshole.

[300Blk]

In don't think people are talking about someone outside the state banning the flag.

The debate is if the state itself should want to fly it.

It makes me sad that the flag is seen as a symbol of racism. But maybe it is. We at least know that it sometimes is. I just never though of it that way. And if I flew it, it would be for the rebel spirit and not to offend.

[rebel]

I am very proud of my Southern heritage. To delve back in to why the war was fought has been discussed to death and that discussion would take up pages. I do not think any human has a right to own another. Period. But I'm not living in 1860 with crops to bring in and money to make. Slavery was accepted NATIONWIDE. The Emmancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves - that came later. We ( southerners ) paid for insolence with reconstruction. I witnessed this and heard my parents debate it as a young boy in the late sixties. Our education system suffered, infrastructure suffered, everything suffered after the loss. It's what you get when you tell the man to stick it and then get whooped. In any case, the Battle flag of General Lee's boys represents, at least for me, proud independence, a way of life that has slowly being eroded, and a "do not tread upon me" attitude. I grew up in a home of very educated,sophiticated parents where any man, if hungry, was welcome at our table. I am the most colorblind person you will ever meet. Now, that being said, if a particular group of folks - we will say- a transvestyte uni-cycle gang - is tearing up a city and a man is interveiwed and yells into the mike -" those damn cross dressin, wheeled homo's just burned down my house! " - I suppose folks watching at home would just shake their heads at his ignorance,click their tongues, turn the AC down a little more and continue on fixing supper. You are never discriminate until it directly affects you - that in itself is human nature and has nothing to do with a flag. I think most like minded guys here see folks in 4 ways - family, friends, strangers ,little to no threat, and targets, potential threat, avoid or take action if appropriate. No color involved.

[Dr.Phil]

It makes me sad that the flag is seen as a symbol of racism. But maybe it is. I just never though of it that way.

The argument could be made that the flag is not a symbol of hate, but rather as a statement about Federal over reach.

I'm am so discouraged when I see the widespread ignorance of the general public in the US.
For instance:
- The US in not a Democracy.
(The US is a representative democratic republic.)
- The US is the United STATES and Federal Government by design is to only do things that the States are not able to do on their own.
- The 2nd Amendment does not protect your right to hunt!

I deeply appreciate my rights as a Citizen of the United States of America and respect the rights of others.
The rights of others enable them to do things that I may not agree with.
Regardless of whether I agree with someone's position or not, I will always fight for their right to have that position.

The flag debate is very similar to the whether or not someone can say N*gg*r.
The word may offend you, but in the United States, you are free to say it.
When a person of color says it, it means something very different than if someone is using it as a racial term.
The same can be said about the "Stars & Bars".
To a person like Rebel, it is a symbol or heritage and pride, but to a person of color, it often seen as a symbol of hatred towards them.

[300Blk]

People think it was the South but in fact it was only the Northern states that fought hard to not let former slaves count as people for representation. That was the 3/5 compromise, and it is as shameful for the North.

[dellet]

People think it was the South but in fact it was only the Northern states that fought hard to not let former slaves count as people for representation. That was the 3/5 compromise, and it is as shameful for the North.

The North also was not willing to give up the revenue of taxes on cotton and tobacco. It would have been a huge financial loss for the government.

[rebel]

It makes me sad that the flag is seen as a symbol of racism. But maybe it is. I just never though of it that way.

The argument could be made that the flag is not a symbol of hate, but rather as a statement about Federal over reach.

I'm am so discouraged when I see the widespread ignorance of the general public in the US.
For instance:
- The US in not a Democracy.
(The US is a representative democratic republic.)
- The US is the United STATES and Federal Government by design is to only do things that the States are not able to do on their own.
- The 2nd Amendment does not protect your right to hunt!

I deeply appreciate my rights as a Citizen of the United States of America and respect the rights of others.
The rights of others enable them to do things that I may not agree with.
Regardless of whether I agree with someone's position or not, I will always fight for their right to have that position.

The flag debate is very similar to the whether or not someone can say N*gg*r.
The word may offend you, but in the United States, you are free to say it.
When a person of color says it, it means something very different than if someone is using it as a racial term.
The same can be said about the "Stars & Bars".
To a person like Rebel, it is a symbol or heritage and pride, but to a person of color, it often seen as a symbol of hatred towards them.

That being said, the destruction of a city over the actions of a few, being represented by the likes of AL and Jesse, and the general nature that we are the nation of the offended does not sit well with me. Just because your skin is so thin that a symbol offends you, should not affect anyone elses life at all. Of course this doesn't stop with the flag.It's about what we say, what we do, your twitter post, your facebook page. It's been taught that this is offensive - therefore it is. The company I presently work for ( not much longer ) tries to monitor all employee's facebook pages. Some have been dumb enough to "friend" them, and some have been fired for what they say. It's a topsy turvey world nowadays where Socialism is readily embraced as the answer to our problems by some. I will have none of it thank you.