Coward of Broward County

[rebel]

Rebel,

I think that there were actually four BCS deputies who were there while the shooting was still ongoing, at least that's what the reports are stating. They swore an oath to uphold the laws and serve the people of Broward County, and they get paid quite handsomely to do so. If they are unwilling to do that job, then what's the point in having them around? Why have an armed LEO on scene if he is not going to do his job? Seems like an awful waste of the taxpayer's money.

As far as culpability for the action, yes it's on the shooter, totally. But contributing to his ability to act is the negligence of the BCS over the time leading up to the shooting. They knew that this perpetrator was a problem, having been called to his residence numerous times for violent acts. Their failure to enforce the law on this individual for those violent acts was the proximate cause of his ability to access the weapon used in the shooting. IMO that makes the BCS Dept. partially responsible for the ability of Cruz to act. The failure of the deputies to intervene when they had the ability to do so also makes the BCS Dept. responsible for him being able to complete his action without hindrance.

The FBI shares the rest of the blame for their incompetence and/or lack of interest in what was reported to them. If LE in this country refuse to do their job, then why do we continue to pay them their salaries and pensions? To hand out speeding tickets and haul in the drunks on Saturday night? To play spy games and attempt political coups in Washington, DC while letting tips about possible mass murderers go unchecked? All I'm saying is that LE should be doing the jobs that they have sworn to do, and are paid to do, regardless of the danger to themselves. After all, that was part of the job description when they signed on. If they don't want the risk, then leave the job. Period.End.

And as I stated, I was playing devils advocate. However not one of us needs to act like our liberal accusers and turn pointed fingers at the NRA and us gun nuts within minutes after finding out an AR 15 was involved.I just don't feel it's our place to judge. At some point they need to start building schools to be able to defend. They are to porous as it is and makes a situation such as this tough to assess.
I believe this will shake up this department up as this was the first thing I saw on TV this morning.
I agree with gds, let's all stick with factual information and leave a BS to the news media.

[Mike7.62]

Everything that I have presented in my post is factual. No conspiracies here, and if you look at one of my previous posts, I am in full agreement with the NRA, especially in the statements of Dana Loesch. I do not believe in any mastermind is behind this, just a chain of failures by everyone involved, but especially the Broward Co. Sheriff and his deputies, and the FBI.

[rebel]

Everything that I have presented in my post is factual. No conspiracies here, and if you look at one of my previous posts, I am in full agreement with the NRA, especially in the statements of Dana Loesch. I do not believe in any mastermind is behind this, just a chain of failures by everyone involved, but especially the Broward Co. Sheriff and his deputies, and the FBI.

No one said YOU were posting conspiracies, There are others going around on other forums that are really disrespectful.
My counterpoint to the collective was by the time Broward Co. had showed, it was probably mostly done. From what I have read, the shooting lasted minutes. In any case, I have made my point. Maybe y'all could have done it different than they did. Maybe not.
I don't like armchair tactictions, I support LE though I see the failures in this world of cameras, youtube and social BS media.
I would say this was a failure IMO but I wasn't there.
The real failure was it got to that point to begin with - which I believe you would agree with Mike.

[gds]

Everything that I have presented in my post is factual. No conspiracies here, and if you look at one of my previous posts, I am in full agreement with the NRA, especially in the statements of Dana Loesch. I do not believe in any mastermind is behind this, just a chain of failures by everyone involved, but especially the Broward Co. Sheriff and his deputies, and the FBI.

I did not say it was. My post was a simple reminder that there is a lot of stupid garbage out there.

[Mike7.62]

Everything that I have presented in my post is factual. No conspiracies here, and if you look at one of my previous posts, I am in full agreement with the NRA, especially in the statements of Dana Loesch. I do not believe in any mastermind is behind this, just a chain of failures by everyone involved, but especially the Broward Co. Sheriff and his deputies, and the FBI.

No one said YOU were posting conspiracies, There are others going around on other forums that are really disrespectful.
My counterpoint to the collective was by the time Broward Co. had showed, it was probably mostly done. From what I have read, the shooting lasted minutes. In any case, I have made my point. Maybe y'all could have done it different than they did. Maybe not.
I don't like armchair tactictions, I support LE though I see the failures in this world of cameras, youtube and social BS media.
I would say this was a failure IMO but I wasn't there.
The real failure was it got to that point to begin with - which I believe you would agree with Mike.

Absolutely I do.

[Mike7.62]

Everything that I have presented in my post is factual. No conspiracies here, and if you look at one of my previous posts, I am in full agreement with the NRA, especially in the statements of Dana Loesch. I do not believe in any mastermind is behind this, just a chain of failures by everyone involved, but especially the Broward Co. Sheriff and his deputies, and the FBI.

I did not say it was. My post was a simple reminder that there is a lot of stupid garbage out there.

Yes there is. Some of the "theories" that I have read are out there near Pluto.

[VENT625]

There is plenty of blame to go around, Federal, state and local level. But something tells me there is more that we are not being told. Did any of you see the interview with the teacher that peaked out the door then scooted her kids into the classroom? I saw it once. My wife saw it too. She stated the kid was in full tactile gear, bullet proof vest, and wearing a helmet. Never saw it again. Now another slight possibility, however way out there, but think it should be considered. The cops were told NOT to enter. Dam politics! Democrats! Could possibly see one cop not going in, but 3 more? Have never ever heard of cops not doing there job in anything! This may be way out there but instead of asking why, how about why not. Could this be an agenda to swing public opinion to go after the guns? I hope the hell not but something about this is all wrong. Just my opinion folks.

This is a high possibility.....Ive worked in LE for over 20 years. I don't know of any agency that teaches its cops to run into a building with an active shooter with so many unknowns. Who's the shooter? Whats his clothing description? How many shooters are there? Where in the building are they? How many students are in the building? What rooms are they in? With all of these unknowns, any of you condemning the cops are either (A) not in LE and don't know tactics/strategies (B) die hard Bruce Willis fans (C) just plain full of shit. When Columbine occurred, the cops just didn't run into the building with guns blazing. And with the propane tank bombs that were strategically placed around the school, its a good thing they didn't! There were multiple agencies involved, including mine. A SWAT team was put together and the building was cleared methodically AFTER THE STUDENTS HAD BEEN EVACUATED. As for the Sheriff, of course he's going to say "The officer should have entered the school and engage the killer, and kill the killer." He's a political puppet. He said what the public wanted to hear to keep his job. Some of the comments on this thread are kind of bothering. As is the title of this thread. Some are so quick to judge. Rant over.

[Sharkbite]

When Columbine occurred, the cops just didn't run into the building with guns blazing

Vent.

With all due respect, training and tactics for active shooters has changed IMMENSELY since that event. I have taught Active shooter mitigation to mtpl agencies across the country in the years since Columbine.

Even your agency doesnt teach “Wait for SWAT” anymore. Go to the sound of gunfire is the standard response by all LE agencies today, has been for years. If there is no active shooting, cordon and search is the response, as soon as shots are heard...go to them and engage the shooter

[renegade]

Even your agency doesnt teach “Wait for SWAT” anymore. Go to the sound of gunfire is the standard response by all LE agencies today, has been for years. If there is no active shooting, cordon and search is the response, as soon as shots are heard...go to them and engage the shooter

It is what you do when you get there that seems to be the problem.

I note when George Hennard did his attack at Lubys, a single Texas DPS officer went in to get him and Hennard killed himself. This was years before Columbine.

There still seems to be a lot of hesitancy to go in, even though someone is getting shot about every 5 seconds or so.

[hardcase]

I don't think this is the answer but I still couldn't help but smile. People get fearful when they don't feel protected.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oa ... ENEWS00001

There is something on another forum about LE does not have the duty to engage. From a 1981 Supreme Court decision. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since 1981 though.