Reading Wind

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rebel
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Reading Wind

Post by rebel » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:06 pm

The two groups before this were 5 shot groups at about 1/2 MOA. That sucks for this rifle - it would do better with a good driver. Finally started ambushing the wind, waiting till it lulled and breaking the shot. In any case my last 3 shots resulted in this. Got a lot to learn yet and I can't afford to wait on the wind to die in the upcoming Groundhog shoot with a 2 minute window.
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Re: Reading Wind

Post by FOB » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:56 pm

It's old fashioned, but the "half-off/one-off/one and one-half off" method still works, at least in my 7.62X51 and .30-06.

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Re: Reading Wind

Post by rebel » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:12 pm

FOB wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:56 pm
It's old fashioned, but the "half-off/one-off/one and one-half off" method still works, at least in my 7.62X51 and .30-06.
Maybe I call it something different, but care to explain that method in a bit more detail and how it relates to reading wind?
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Re: Reading Wind

Post by FOB » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:13 am

If you know you're going to have wind drift, classify the wind as mild, moderate, or heavy.

Half-off is aiming at the upwind edge of the target (half the target width).

One-off is holding one width off, so half target width off the target edge.

1 1/2 off is a full target width off the edge.

This isn't sniper level stuff and I'm not sure how effective for smaller targets at long distances.

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Re: Reading Wind

Post by rebel » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:17 am

FOB wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:13 am
If you know you're going to have wind drift, classify the wind as mild, moderate, or heavy.

Half-off is aiming at the upwind edge of the target (half the target width).

One-off is holding one width off, so half target width off the target edge.

1 1/2 off is a full target width off the edge.

This isn't sniper level stuff and I'm not sure how effective for smaller targets at long distances.
I gotcha, thought that's what you meant. I do use that method some, however that's not reading wind, it's compensating for it. I'm going to have to make myself keep a log book and use the hell out of wind flags to get more experience at this.
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Re: Reading Wind

Post by TRshootem » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:15 pm

Much of my recreational shooting has been in the fields and rolling open areas full of various ground squirrels and prairie dogs. Wind is often a ever changing learning experience, intensity and direction presenting a new challenge as the day progresses. I can't think of a more instructive element, especially growing up using the 'duplex' or post style reticle. Rifle precision is a whole new world these days. At some point, wind 'guessing' becomes instinctive with experience and failure. This all part of the 'Rifle Loony' (John Barsness) in us, I have the hat :P

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Re: Reading Wind

Post by BoomerVF14 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:47 pm

Bryan Litz talks about how important wind reading is to the long-range shooter in "Applied Ballistics for Long-Range Shooting." Power quote:
...studying the nature of wind deflection should be the highest priority for long range shooters.
He describes how to make it a habit all the time, in any situation, to read the wind (e.g. carrying your Kestrel while walking the dog, walking to the car after work, etc.) and compare visual indicators (grass, trees, etc.) to the readout. Might sound a bit obsesssive-compulsive but the dude's got the titles to back it up.

Careful though... his chapter on the effects of wind, even at 300yds and in, gets complex really fast when he considers gyroscopic effects of a crosswind. Crosswind doesn't push the bullet straight left or right - it causes a weathervane effect that results in the nose of the bullet tracing a cloverleaf pattern... the good news though is that the effects can be calculated and are at a constant angle, which is to say a good ballistic solver (6 degrees of freedom) can compensate for them. That means you can create rules of thumb to use in a time crunch for vertical displacement in addition to the obvious horizontal ones. That is, in a right crosswind you'll hit slightly high, and a left crosswind slightly low.

Only bring this up because certain folk mentioned dissatisfaction with half-MOA groups :roll: :mrgreen:

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Re: Reading Wind

Post by rebel » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:55 am

BoomerVF14 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:47 pm
Bryan Litz talks about how important wind reading is to the long-range shooter in "Applied Ballistics for Long-Range Shooting." Power quote:
...studying the nature of wind deflection should be the highest priority for long range shooters.
He describes how to make it a habit all the time, in any situation, to read the wind (e.g. carrying your Kestrel while walking the dog, walking to the car after work, etc.) and compare visual indicators (grass, trees, etc.) to the readout. Might sound a bit obsesssive-compulsive but the dude's got the titles to back it up.

Careful though... his chapter on the effects of wind, even at 300yds and in, gets complex really fast when he considers gyroscopic effects of a crosswind. Crosswind doesn't push the bullet straight left or right - it causes a weathervane effect that results in the nose of the bullet tracing a cloverleaf pattern... the good news though is that the effects can be calculated and are at a constant angle, which is to say a good ballistic solver (6 degrees of freedom) can compensate for them. That means you can create rules of thumb to use in a time crunch for vertical displacement in addition to the obvious horizontal ones. That is, in a right crosswind you'll hit slightly high, and a left crosswind slightly low.

Only bring this up because certain folk mentioned dissatisfaction with half-MOA groups :roll: :mrgreen:
I have both volumes of Applied Ballistics. Litz can be very hard to read, but I muscled through it.
Now Boomer, I know you're just giving me sh!t :mrgreen: , but dang, when you know your rifle is capable of holding 1/3 MOA all the way to 500 -and it doesn't -
hmmmmmm.......must be the idiot in the driver's seat.
I think one of the most important secrets to precision shooting is realizing the weakest link - you. :oops:

It seems that human nature is that we find fault in ourselves last, when there is no other excuses that are plausible and we allow dejection and envy in others accomplishments to creep in to our head. Realizing one must improve their skills can be tough to admit. It's been a journey of mine for the last 8 years with the first two years just walking the path that had the sign " This way to better shooting." and the last 6 learning what perils to avoid.

So yes, I plead guilty to your charge Boomer. :roll: :oops:
But it is only to improve and understand. Bringing my lack of skills and shooting blunders before my peers keeps me humble and grounded.

Edit to add - This was one of the groups shot the day before in the same wind, with me not shooting in a condition.
Image

Again, 300 yards. I haven't measured either group but as you can see, this one is right at or a bit more than 1/2 MOA.
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Re: Reading Wind

Post by dellet » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:26 am

I tried the method Boomer is talking about and it’s half brilliant, and half BS.

I was walking by a golf course that had a landscape similar to where I shoot matches, and the wind was blowing similar. Since there were flags on the poles at the holes I figurered it would be a good time to practice taking readings. After the 3rd shot at a golf ball at 500 yards, the damn SWAT team showed up. After I explained what I was doing, those jackasses shot every ball on the course and I had to move on to somewhere else. Next time I’ll use the suppressor, maybe I can get in a few more shots before they call it in. :x
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Re: Reading Wind

Post by ozleux » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm

Obviously wind is in language I have yet to understand, but I need to get it figured out :shock:
Last weekend at Frontline Defense, at the longest stage, the 800 yd. flag and the 1000 yd. flag were straight out in opposite directions :x
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