for anyone following the new 350 legend - saami drawing released

[plant.one]

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... uction.pdf

[rebel]

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... uction.pdf

Yeah, saw that. Still trying to figure out where it headspaces off of. Hopefully not the rim.

[dellet]

Thanks Plant, that does answer some questions.

It's not actually a straight wall cartridge as advertised, so it should feed ok, .010" is a fair amount of taper.

It does headspace off the neck rim, that's the "circled x" in the cartridge drawing, 1.710"-1.720". Not sure i like that in a Semi-auto

Not sure I like the idea of calling it a 223 based cartridge that can be made from converting. Blowing the web area out of the base about .015" from .375" to .390" does not sound good to me.

You have very little room in front of the case neck to the leade/throat into the lands. CTBO will be critical and bullet shape will make that interesting. There will be some surprises for less experienced handloaders.

There is a 357AR wildcat that is basically the same thing that has less taper and a smaller diameter body that has been around, so hopefully this works out OK. Factory brass would be a huge plus.

I like the idea, not ready to order a barrel yet though, maybe next week.

[rebel]

Thanks Plant, that does answer some questions.

It's not actually a straight wall cartridge as advertised, so it should feed ok, .010" is a fair amount of taper.

It does headspace off the neck rim, that's the "circled x" in the cartridge drawing, 1.710"-1.720". Not sure i like that in a Semi-auto

Not sure I like the idea of calling it a 223 based cartridge that can be made from converting. Blowing the web area out of the base about .015" from .375" to .390" does not sound good to me.

You have very little room in front of the case neck to the leade/throat into the lands. CTBO will be critical and bullet shape will make that interesting. There will be some surprises for less experienced handloaders.

There is a 357AR wildcat that is basically the same thing that has less taper and a smaller diameter body that has been around, so hopefully this works out OK. Factory brass would be a huge plus.

I like the idea, not ready to order a barrel yet though, maybe next week.

Learn something new everyday.

[bangbangping]

Not sure I like the idea of calling it a 223 based cartridge that can be made from converting. Blowing the web area out of the base about .015" from .375" to .390" does not sound good to me.

Agree 100%. This is not a conversion cartridge. Are they calling it that?

I want to see a 300+ grain HP mold before I get excited.

[dellet]

Not sure I like the idea of calling it a 223 based cartridge that can be made from converting. Blowing the web area out of the base about .015" from .375" to .390" does not sound good to me.

Agree 100%. This is not a conversion cartridge. Are they calling it that?

I want to see a 300+ grain HP mold before I get excited.

Some of the write ups have called it "223 based" without an explanation. That's going to get some one a bad day fire forming a full power load at some point.

There has been a couple tries over the years that I know of, 357 Max rimless, the 357AR are two that come to mind. But without blowing out the case at the bottom you end up with a reverse taper or a neck only about .008-.009" or less for cast. Most 223/556 that I have measured are .374-5" VS the 357 Max at .380".

A 300 grain bullet seems like it would take a lot of case space based on what the chamber drawing shows. A bullet will jam with as little as .090" bearing surface outside the case.

[plant.one]

the only thing 223 based about it is the rim diameter. sadly. i had heard the same nonsense earrly on too and was very excited about it. "someone finally did to the 357AR what Robert did to the 300 wisper". ya nope.

i think winchester shot them selves s in the foot with this one. it'll still be popular, but i bet when brass IS finally available it'll bee 90 cents to a buck each for the first year or two... unless starline steps it up and gives them the finger ASAP.



as for semi-auto's that headspace off the case mouth - the 450 bushmaster and the 50 beowulf do just dandy in AR's... so not even close to venturing into new territory.

so its only a matter of time before someone does one.



but proprietary brass is going to kill the acceptance of it, at least in the short term by folks like us who are reloaders.

[dellet]

as for semi-auto's that headspace off the case mouth - the 450 bushmaster and the 50 beowulf do just dandy in AR's... so not even close to venturing into new territory.

Oh no doubt it’s been done. All the pistol caliber semi’s work just fine. I don’t own any of those either. I like the idea of the cartridge, and it might find a place on the shelf, but pistol accuracy in a rifle has no great appeal to me. That’s probably what this will deliver.

Again I like the concept, but I would probably take a 350 legend case and neck it down to .338 for a rifle bullet or .32 for a pistol bullet, to give it a shoulder.

[rebel]

There was a guy clamoring for a reamer print for this on accurate shooter so I copied that link and posted Plant.
I also brought up dellets very legitimate concern about where it headspaces and ARs in general. Plus my thoughts on headspacing of a rim in general, I know it's been done but there are better places to set headspace when designing new rounds.

[plant.one]

There was a guy clamoring for a reamer print for this on accurate shooter so I copied that link and posted Plant.
I also brought up dellets very legitimate concern about where it headspaces and ARs in general. Plus my thoughts on headspacing of a rim in general, I know it's been done but there are better places to set headspace when designing new rounds.

while i dont disagree with the concerns...


this cartridge is chasing one thing only - deer hunters whos hunting zones now have been opened up to straight wall rifle cartridges. and we all know that most of those bubba's are happy to print a group thats thee size of a piece of notebook paper - and wouldnt know a sub-MOA rifle if it bit them in the hindquarters - so MOA (or a little better) accuracy will sell it and if we're honest with each other MORE than sufficient to make furry stuff achieve room temperature. they say this is a 47 state legal deer cartridge - thats their marketing shtick in a nutshell. the fact that its rimless (or rebated slightly) just makes it feed and ensurers that it will eventually be built into an ar rifle.

so there's gotta be a compromise somewhere to accommodate the laws hunters have to follow. and unfortunately we all understand that the game departments that set these (often) stupid rules couldn't tell common sense if it whacked them upside the head with a 2x4.

like for example - you cant use a bottle neck cartridge to deer hunt in the restricted zone here in michigan. yet 1 day on either side of deer season you're legal to use a 300 win mag to go kill a coyote out of the same stand. but only in the daytime. at night the caliber is restricted to .269 or less. you know to prevent bullets from traveling too far at night when people might not be able to see what their backstop is. and that .270 or 30-06 deer rifle is scary. but hey - that 6.5 creedmore, 26 nosler or .260 AI is just fine - dont worry about that.. those dont carry anywhere near the distance those nasty .270 and larger deer rifles do. like a 300 blackout... no way buddy. thats WAY to dangerous to night hunt with at 150 yds or less. </sarcasm>