300 Wilson Ham’r

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dellet
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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by dellet » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:35 am

Mike7.62 wrote:
bangbangping wrote:
Mike7.62 wrote:...it has around 250-300 f/s advantage over the 300 BLK in all bullet weights in the supersonic venue.

I guess the question is, do you find these statements true
Same barrel length, same pressure, with any super bullet? Nope. Not even close.

Possibly with a short, light bullet which can't be loaded to mag length in the BLK. That's where the extra length and capacity will really help the Ham'r. But something like, say, the 150 Gold Dot? You'd be hard pressed to get 75 fps advantage. I think 50-60 would be more likely.
Do you have data for this? Not saying that you're wrong, but they are claiming to get 2190-2250 f/s with 150 gr bullets in an 18" barrel. I'm getting around 1920 f/s with the 150 gr GD in my 300 BLK with a 16" barrel. Given about 50 f/s velocity loss for 2" of barrel, that still places the HAM'R 250+ f/s faster than the BLK with same weight bullet and clearly in .30-30 range.

Here's the data from Wilson. Apologies for the length of the post.


300 HAM’R HANDLOADING DATA

Accurate/Western Powder Load Data for A1680

WILSON COMBAT LOAD DATA

Sierra 110gr HP-V #2110, 2.160” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 25.5gr A1680 or 26.0gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 27.5gr A1680 or 28.0gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2500 – 2600FPS

Lehigh 110gr CC #05-308-110-CUSP, 2.245” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 25.5gr A1680 or 26.0gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 27.5gr A1680 or 28gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2500 – 2600FPS

Sierra 125gr SBT PH #2120, 2.245” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 25.0gr A1680 or 26.0gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 26.5gr A1680 or 27.8gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2450 – 2500FPS

Speer 125gr TNT #1986/#3725, 2.245” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 25.0gr A1680 or 26.0gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 26.0gr A1680 or 27.2gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2450 – 2500FPS

Speer 130gr FPHC #2007, 2.175” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 25.0gr A1680 or 26.0gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 26.5gr A1680 or 27.8gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2450 – 2500FPS

Hornady 150gr SST #30303, 2.245” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 23.8gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 24.8gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2190 – 2250FPS

Speer 150gr FNHC #2011, 2.145” OAL
WC 300 HAM’R case
Start load: 23.6gr H CFEBLK
Max load: 24.8gr H CFEBLK
CCI450
Velocity range 2180 – 2240FPS

All loads were produced with WC 300 HAM’R cases, reduce the above charge weights by 5% if using cases made from .223/5.56 brass.

WARNING: Due to barrel bore dimension variations and powder lot differences WILSON COMBAT strongly recommends the use of a chronograph to work up loads in excess of the starting loads. Do not exceed the highest velocity listed for any load and do not substitute any other component for those listed.

Velocities were recorded using a Wilson Combat 18” barrel with Labradar in 90-100 degree temperature. Reduce or add 12FPS per inch for shorter or longer barrels.

NOTE: The 300 HAM’R is designed to use 110-150gr bullets at supersonic velocity and is NOT suitable for heavy bullet sub-sonic use.

WARNING: The above loading data has proven safe in Wilson Combat firearms when used properly, but because Wilson’s Gun Shop, Inc., dba Wilson Combat has no control over the components used or individual handloading practices we assume no liability (either expressed or implied) for the use of this load data information.

NUMEROUS BULLETS ARE SUITABLE FOR THE 300 HAM’R AND COVER A WIDE VARIETY OF APPLICATIONS

Bullet Choices Suitable for the 300 HAM’R

110gr Sierra HP Varminter #2110 (extremely accurate)
110gr Hornady V-MAX #23010
110gr Barnes TSX #30835
110gr Lehigh CC #05-308-110-CUSP (our partners at Lehigh Defense designed this bullet specifically for the 300 HAM’R to provide extreme accuracy and deadly terminal performance)
125gr Sierra SBT PH #2120 (the all around choice, achieves maximum velocity, accurate and deadly)
125gr Sierra FNHP #2020
125gr Speer TNT #1986
130gr Speer FNHC #2007 (OPTIMUM hunting bullet for terminal performance)
130gr Speer HP #2005 (inexpensive and super accurate)
135gr Sierra HP Varminter #2124 (extremely accurate, great choice for predator hunting)
135gr Sierra HPBT MK #2123
150gr Hornady SST #30303 (for the largest game the cartridge is suitable for)
150gr Hornady RN IL #3035
150gr Sierra FN PH #2000 (for the largest game the cartridge is suitable for)
150gr Sierra RN PH #2135
150gr Speer FNHC #2011 (for the largest game the cartridge is suitable for)
160gr Hornady FTX #30395

WILSON COMBAT SUPPORTS THE HANDLOADER

The following are available from shopwilsoncombat.com

Lee Reloading Dies
RCBS Reloading Dies
Wilson Combat headspace/bullet seating gage
WC 300 HAM’R Headstamped Cases
Bullets

Accurate/Western Powder Load Data for A1680
All of those numbers are within reason and for the most part can be obtained with an 18” Blackout. I would assume that those numbers could be pushed just a bit more with more case capacity. The Wilson cartridge will likely be able to do this easier, with less pressure, 1680 or CFE BLK vs 296.

The heavier or longer the bullet, the less gain you will have. A good example would be that they are not using the Barnes 110 because it is too long for the case. The bullet selection will be somewhat limited.

Consider that the COL for both cartridges is the same. You will lose more case capacity with the Wilson the longer the bullet is. The volume gain will be between the bullet below the neck and the case wall. So a short flatbase bullet might gain 4 grains of powder, where long boat tail like a 150 SST it could be less than 2 grains. These are guesses for example only, but looking at the load data, they will be close.

Sub sonic is probably off the table, or very limited.

For what it’s worth, a 110 VMax can be pushed to 2800 fps in an 18” Blackout and the 150 Gold dot was at 2180 fps in a 12”, keeping the COL at 2.260”. So I have no doubt those numbers are valid.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Mike7.62
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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by Mike7.62 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:10 am

Thanks dellet. I haven't tried to push the 150 GD yet, so I will give that a try. I was intrigued by the idea of having a .30-30 power level in an AR platform, using standard AR-15 components, e.g. magazines, BC groups etc., vs having to step up to a .308. I have a .308 AR from Rock River, but it isn't by any means light or handy enough for hunting-at least for me. I do understand that the HAM'R is not meant for subs, and Wilson explicitly states that in the information that they provide, recommending the 300 BLK for sub sonic use.

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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by bangbangping » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:22 am

dellet wrote:The volume gain will be between the bullet below the neck and the case wall.
I think that's the thing most people miss (along with the 18" barrel thing). A short bullet that's able to be loaded longer in the Ham'r can take advantage of the extra case capacity. A longer one, all you gain is the blue area in the pic below.

IMO, the Ham'r is great if you only shoot factory supers. If you reload and want a little versatility, not so much.

Edit: If you do reload, don't mind a wildcat, and want a faster .30 bullet from an AR15, look at one of the several 30 Herrett flavors available. They're all based on the 6.8 SPC case and do give some extra capacity and velocity over the BLK or Ham'r. I have the American 30 and can push a 125 PH 2700 fps from an 18" barrel, and the 150 Gold Dot over 2400.

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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by djones » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:42 am

don't remember which bullets i tried last when i left off, but i've settled on speer 125 tnt hp. i have a few vids that are pretty impressive regarding it's killability. going hunting now but will try to find them later.

i recently got a labradar and am shooting handloads over 2700 fps with sd of 14.

haven't really pushed a blackout. i'm sure i left some velocity on the table. have two and hog hunted with both several times. by that, i don't mean i've shot a couple hogs with them. i mean i layed into many herds with them. gave up trying. prolly not a popular thing to say on a bo forum but i switched to a 6.8 after that. but what do i know about killing hogs anyway?

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dellet
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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by dellet » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:34 pm

bangbangping wrote:
dellet wrote:The volume gain will be between the bullet below the neck and the case wall.
I think that's the thing most people miss (along with the 18" barrel thing). A short bullet that's able to be loaded longer in the Ham'r can take advantage of the extra case capacity. A longer one, all you gain is the blue area in the pic below.

IMO, the Ham'r is great if you only shoot factory supers. If you reload and want a little versatility, not so much.

Edit: If you do reload, don't mind a wildcat, and want a faster .30 bullet from an AR15, look at one of the several 30 Herrett flavors available. They're all based on the 6.8 SPC case and do give some extra capacity and velocity over the BLK or Ham'r. I have the American 30 and can push a 125 PH 2700 fps from an 18" barrel, and the 150 Gold Dot over 2400.

Image
If you look at the Ham’r data they use fast rifle powders,1680, CFE. The advantage of these is you probably have to want to pop a primer to do it, they are very forgiving. With 1680, you are limited to case capacity, with something like 296 you are limited to pressure. So the starting loads for the Ham’r will be max loads for the Blackout if you have a sense of adventure.

I took a quick look at the 150 SST load, 22.5 grains maybe 23, will be max in a Blackout case with that same bullet. You can figure about 80-85 fps per grain of powder added. Compare that to 296 where you will start blowing primers around 19 grains.

The other advantage the Ham’r has is that keeping it built toward supers only, is using a midlength gas tube. Lower peak pressure, softer shooting, less reciprocating mass at a lower speed then you can also slow the twist rate down.

There was not enough difference between the 7.62x35 and 40 to swing me either way. Going to what is basically a 7.62x45, if all I wanted was supers, is different.

Sadly it’s probably only extended the effective range for hunting 100 yards, but inside 200 it has become more reliable in the sense you can depend more on the bullet than the shooter.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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bangbangping
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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by bangbangping » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:22 pm

djones wrote:don't remember which bullets i tried last when i left off, but i've settled on speer 125 tnt hp. i have a few vids that are pretty impressive regarding it's killability. going hunting now but will try to find them later.

i recently got a labradar and am shooting handloads over 2700 fps with sd of 14.
2700 with a 125 grain bullet? That's pretty impressive. Mind sharing the load data?
djones wrote:prolly not a popular thing to say on a bo forum but i switched to a 6.8 after that.
Perfectly reasonable. If I were hunting...ummm...shooting hogs the way you are, there's no way I'd use a BLK.

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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by djones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:11 am

mike,
i'm not sure about the claims. i never really tried to push the blackout. as far as equaling the 30-30, i haven't thought about comparing them either. if anything, i used to unfairly compare the 30-30 against bolt action 30 calibers and wondered why anyone would ever choose a 30-30.

the hamr is as good a choice for a deer killing round as any in an ar15. i put it right up there (if not farther) with the grendel and spc, which need a different bolt and mag. if you can get a hamr barrel on sale for $200 then even better. just don't expect to run over to academy for a box of ammo. if a case will last you a while, then order it from wilson and you're fine. if you handload then i think you will be very pleased. the bonus is that even if it were only the equal of a hot blackout, grendel or spc, the accuracy is utterly astounding!!

here are some vids while i was still using 110s. pretty good killers but seem to lose some steam on the longer shots.

https://youtu.be/lbKWXH97zzM
https://youtu.be/S17FFZcplz4

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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by djones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:41 am

i stuck to published max loads for a good while. another friend went way beyond max and wasn't having any issues so i slowly crept upwards. i'm told that a particular lot number of cfeblk is much hotter than others. max in that lot is max. i don't remember what lot that was, but i don't have it. i'm about half way through my second 8lb jug and haven't blown, flattened, cratered or pierced any primers. i don't have ejector marks or split necks.

my last load was 29.2gr of cfeblk, new unprimed brass, cci 450, oal 2.250 to 2.255 (hollow point tips weren't consistent), no crimp. have to trickle the powder in to get it to fit. i just loaded 200 rounds of once fired brass from this load and had about 15 or 20 cases where the primer seated too easily. if it becomes a problem i'll mark them and discard after next firing. i'll probably just run 29.0 gr and call it good. no point in being greedy about it.

disclaimer: that's well beyond published max, so i recommend against anyone else trying that!

here are some 125 tnt's in action

https://youtu.be/-YD-VkKv1JM
https://youtu.be/oH2tkiW4sl4
https://youtu.be/mCWPz7mxe-g
https://youtu.be/D2jZs3hoVNk

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Last edited by djones on Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

djones
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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by djones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:47 am

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djones
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Re: 300 Wilson Ham’r

Post by djones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:48 am

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