Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

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MMA10mm
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by MMA10mm » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:24 am

A-Game wrote:
The Term Threshold is the important number because that number will not change.

DRT was happy to share the info specifically for this thread by my request and I forwarded that email to Phil. I'm glad we have companies that support us in our addiction like DRT, Lehigh, Barnes, and the rest.

DRT loads their ammo for the most accurate velocity not the maximum velocity it is capable of reaching. It has a 200 yard and under recommendation by the manufacturer. That recommendation will give you full expansion of the tungsten powder into your target. Yes it is a frangible but the jacket stays in one piece with the copper bent 180 degrees. It is really cool! (I am an Industry Pro Team member for DRT) DRT uses the same copper jackets Berger uses.
The DRT Terminal Shock bullet has the lowest Terminal Threshold of the Blackout specific bullets to date. DON'T let the velocity fool you this barrier blind bullet has similar penetration to the Barnes 110 Blacktip based on my own testing. It is a flat base bullet and will take down anything a Barnes Blacktip will kill. It is high quality for a reasonable street price. I just upgraded my scope to do a longer range test with it...I already did a 450 yard shot that penetrated a watermelon and water jug. 8 degree incline on the shot.
Feel free to PM me any questions.
Thanks for the input A-Game.

While I understand the importance of the Threshold, I disagree it is the only factor of importance. There are two factors which concern me regarding the discrepancy for the DRT bullet's velocity:

First, if the bullet was shot at same muzzle velocity as the other 130-135gr bullets, the bullet would go farther down-range before getting to it's threshold velocity, and this would be much more advantageous for DRT in the comparisons.

Second, a higher velocity will give the bullet a flatter trajectory. None of the comparisons in this thread have looked at trajectory, but it follows energy in that the heavier bullets do better as range gets long, but that's only if the velocity is optimized.

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by A-Game » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:57 pm

MMA10mm wrote:
A-Game wrote:
The Term Threshold is the important number because that number will not change.

DRT was happy to share the info specifically for this thread by my request and I forwarded that email to Phil. I'm glad we have companies that support us in our addiction like DRT, Lehigh, Barnes, and the rest.

DRT loads their ammo for the most accurate velocity not the maximum velocity it is capable of reaching. It has a 200 yard and under recommendation by the manufacturer. That recommendation will give you full expansion of the tungsten powder into your target. Yes it is a frangible but the jacket stays in one piece with the copper bent 180 degrees. It is really cool! (I am an Industry Pro Team member for DRT) DRT uses the same copper jackets Berger uses.
The DRT Terminal Shock bullet has the lowest Terminal Threshold of the Blackout specific bullets to date. DON'T let the velocity fool you this barrier blind bullet has similar penetration to the Barnes 110 Blacktip based on my own testing. It is a flat base bullet and will take down anything a Barnes Blacktip will kill. It is high quality for a reasonable street price. I just upgraded my scope to do a longer range test with it...I already did a 450 yard shot that penetrated a watermelon and water jug. 8 degree incline on the shot.
Feel free to PM me any questions.
Thanks for the input A-Game.

While I understand the importance of the Threshold, I disagree it is the only factor of importance. There are two factors which concern me regarding the discrepancy for the DRT bullet's velocity:

First, if the bullet was shot at same muzzle velocity as the other 130-135gr bullets, the bullet would go farther down-range before getting to it's threshold velocity, and this would be much more advantageous for DRT in the comparisons.

Second, a higher velocity will give the bullet a flatter trajectory. None of the comparisons in this thread have looked at trajectory, but it follows energy in that the heavier bullets do better as range gets long, but that's only if the velocity is optimized.
The great thing about this thread is suggestions are always welcomed and if they work they have been incorporated. I think it is a fantastic start for anyone looking for great hunting ammunition. When DRT has more boxed ammunition in stock I will buy more and I will make a few trajectory charts with a couple different zeros. Unfortunately it is 113 degrees out right now so I will probably wait until it is 20 degrees cooler to do it.

Honestly, my first reaction to DRT having a lower velocity was one of disappointment until I got the ammunition in hand and had a conversation with Dustin Worrell, President of DRT Ammo. The Blackout Terminal Shock bullet is long and it's intended purpose is 200 yards and under.
I can certainly investigate purchasing the bullets to reload to get a higher velocity with more powder but I don't know if that would compress the load or not. I am pretty sure this bullet is longer than other 135 GR options available on the market. The reason is because of the powdered metal core. There is not another 135 GR bullet on the market that will expand at blackout velocities with the same penetration with the barrier blind capability. I will be using it. If I need a longer range shot then I would use a different bullet. I only use lead free bullets to hunt meat I will eat.

On a side not DRT will have a subsonic hunting bullet by the Fall :mrgreen:
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by MMA10mm » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:48 am

A-Game wrote:
The great thing about this thread is suggestions are always welcomed and if they work they have been incorporated. I think it is a fantastic start for anyone looking for great hunting ammunition. When DRT has more boxed ammunition in stock I will buy more and I will make a few trajectory charts with a couple different zeros. Unfortunately it is 113 degrees out right now so I will probably wait until it is 20 degrees cooler to do it.

Honestly, my first reaction to DRT having a lower velocity was one of disappointment until I got the ammunition in hand and had a conversation with Dustin Worrell, President of DRT Ammo. The Blackout Terminal Shock bullet is long and it's intended purpose is 200 yards and under.
I can certainly investigate purchasing the bullets to reload to get a higher velocity with more powder but I don't know if that would compress the load or not. I am pretty sure this bullet is longer than other 135 GR options available on the market. The reason is because of the powdered metal core. There is not another 135 GR bullet on the market that will expand at blackout velocities with the same penetration with the barrier blind capability. I will be using it. If I need a longer range shot then I would use a different bullet. I only use lead free bullets to hunt meat I will eat.

On a side not DRT will have a subsonic hunting bullet by the Fall :mrgreen:
Yeah, it makes total sense that the different core would make the bullet longer. I didn't consider that, but had thought about how the core may be sensitive to compression and that may require the lower velocity... If you get any of the loose bullets, give me a shout, and I'll try loading them hotter. It's only 96*F here today... :lol: I prefer the 135gr bullet weight and so am pretty excited about these DRT projos.

Even with the lower velocity, the expansion threshold puts these bullets in the top 4 of all supersonic, expanding 300 Blackout bullets. Indeed, they're in a very elite group of bullets that expand AND have reasonable energy all the way out to 300 yards. I'm definitely impressed with them, just making a very small gripe about a bit higher velocity giving them even more range, more energy, and flatter trajectory.

I wish I could publish this chart I've made... Maybe if a screen shot it and post it as a picture, it will work. I'll work on that tonight.

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by dellet » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:21 pm

These will be up for testing real soon, hunting season is fast approaching.

150 and 130 Maker bullets for Blackout.

Image
Last edited by dellet on Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by plant.one » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:42 pm

dellet wrote:These will be up for testing real soon, hunting season is fast approaching.

150 and 135 Maker bullets for Blackout.

Image

now thats some terribly interesting territory. whats the expansion threshold on those? :)
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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by dellet » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:09 pm

plant.one wrote:
dellet wrote:These will be up for testing real soon, hunting season is fast approaching.

150 and 135 Maker bullets for Blackout.

Image

now thats some terribly interesting territory. whats the expansion threshold on those? :)
I believe 1300, maybe slightly lower. I will write up more in the Maker thread and it will be up there later.
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=97863&start=150

Here was first load work up with the 130's 2150 fps at 50 yards seven shots:
Image

150's using same point of aim 1750 fps. I thought there would be more change in the point of impact 7 shots. Fourteen total 130 & 150
Image
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by slickyboyboo79 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:55 pm

dellet wrote:These will be up for testing real soon, hunting season is fast approaching.

150 and 130 Maker bullets for Blackout.

Image
The 130s are designed for high velocity expansion out of the .308, not the Blackout, so I doubt they will expand at 1300 fps. The TREX Blackout bullets are only made in 110 gr, 125 gr, and 150 gr.

https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=308130THV

https://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=5,102

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by dellet » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:23 am

slickyboyboo79 wrote:
dellet wrote:These will be up for testing real soon, hunting season is fast approaching.

150 and 130 Maker bullets for Blackout.

Image
The 130s are designed for high velocity expansion out of the .308, not the Blackout, so I doubt they will expand at 1300 fps. The TREX Blackout bullets are only made in 110 gr, 125 gr, and 150 gr.

https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=308130THV

https://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=5,102
Actually I would appreciate it if you would do your do diligence and ask a question if you have it, instead of spouting off about something you know nothing about. As stated I am in the process of testing the bullets in question.

Basically the testing is two part. First is accuracy and consistency. Once that is established the expansion threshold can be adjusted. There will be about an 800 fps window for that. I expect in a 16" barrel velocity will top out in the low 2000 area for the 150. The bullet is long for weight, being copper and somewhat hollow, powder capacity is an issue to keep it under 2.260". The 130 grain bullet is working very well at 2150 so far.

Keep in mind that what I have is not necessarily available on the website and 130 version is indeed in my hands. That does not mean it will hit the market at that weight.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by slickyboyboo79 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:39 pm

dellet wrote:
slickyboyboo79 wrote:
dellet wrote:These will be up for testing real soon, hunting season is fast approaching.

150 and 130 Maker bullets for Blackout.

Image
The 130s are designed for high velocity expansion out of the .308, not the Blackout, so I doubt they will expand at 1300 fps. The TREX Blackout bullets are only made in 110 gr, 125 gr, and 150 gr.

https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=308130THV

https://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=5,102
Actually I would appreciate it if you would do your do diligence and ask a question if you have it, instead of spouting off about something you know nothing about. As stated I am in the process of testing the bullets in question.

Basically the testing is two part. First is accuracy and consistency. Once that is established the expansion threshold can be adjusted. There will be about an 800 fps window for that. I expect in a 16" barrel velocity will top out in the low 2000 area for the 150. The bullet is long for weight, being copper and somewhat hollow, powder capacity is an issue to keep it under 2.260". The 130 grain bullet is working very well at 2150 so far.

Keep in mind that what I have is not necessarily available on the website and 130 version is indeed in my hands. That does not mean it will hit the market at that weight.
Due diligence done, and I haven't "Spouted Off", it seems that you are the one with your panties in a wad.

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Re: Max Effective Range of Common 300 BLK Projectiles

Post by Gunnut 45/454 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:59 pm

Dr Phil
You also need to Add Speer Hot Cors to this mix! The 130 HPFB and the 150gr SPBT both have a 1200 fps termal threshold. I get very good expansion with the 150 gr out to 225 yards. The 130 out to 185 yards.

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