300BlkTalk

RavenArmament wrote:
Shot placement isn't any more important with subsonic, supersonic, or archery equipment. They all need to hit the same place. Period.

Expansion is over-romanticized especially in hunting. Too much emphasis is placed on bullet expansion, but bullet expansion is needed for high velocity jacketed bullets to perform better than cast bullets. That's part of where that expansion marketing comes from and it is several decades old. Expansion is touted as more effective and in order to do that velocity needs to increase to upset the bullet jacket and follow through with rupture and expansion of the bullet core.

"Don't use subsonic bullets for hunting because they don't expand". They don't need to expand. They need to be placed deep in the vitals to kill. So do that and you will kill. That is what the "old guard" won't understand and refuses to listen to.

I don't completely disagree with the above, but I don't completely agree with it either.

A non expanding subsonic can kill, of that no doubt. I have done it. the issue with the 300blk is these long heavy non expanding bullets have no issue hitting and penetrating deep, the problem is they penetrate too deep. they will easily go thru most big game. What they tend to do is leave very little tissue disruption and also little to no blood trail. this allows the game to travel a good distance before expiring. in thick woods this makes it very difficult to track down the animal.

in my experience I have found that some type of expansion aids tremendously in adding both tissue disruption, and a good size exit wound to let them bleed out quickly.

A non expanding sub can be used ethically. And if I lost the ability to make my hollow pointed cast then I would have no issue using a non expanding sub. But since I have the choice I will use an expanding one.

gds wrote:
I don't completely disagree with the above, but I don't completely agree with it either.

A non expanding subsonic can kill, of that no doubt. I have done it. the issue with the 300blk is these long heavy non expanding bullets have no issue hitting and penetrating deep, the problem is they penetrate too deep. they will easily go thru most big game. What they tend to do is leave very little tissue disruption and also little to no blood trail. this allows the game to travel a good distance before expiring. in thick woods this makes it very difficult to track down the animal.

Use a properly designed bullet. Spitzer bullets do not have the correct profile for hunting at subsonic velocity because the wound profile is exactly that. A bullet with a flat meplat is a much better choice for hunting. They will have a larger wound profile than spitzers. That is what I prefer to use because they do more permanent damage than spitzers.

Full penetration is not a bad thing when it comes to hunting. I prefer it personally. One thing I will ask when hunters complain about bullets exiting the animal they killed is "At what point did the bullet fail to the job intended when it killed the animal you shot?"

in my experience I have found that some type of expansion aids tremendously in adding both tissue disruption, and a good size exit wound to let them bleed out quickly.

Only the actual damage caused to the vital organs makes them bleed quickly. The damage to the off side of the body cavity has nothing to do with the death of the animal. It only aids in tracking sometimes if enough visible blood is on the ground for the hunter to follow.

Heart shot with one entrance wound and one exit wound will bleed the same amount whether the bullet exited the body or not. Difference is if the blood stays in the body cavity or falls to the ground. Neither contributes to the speed in which the animal expired. Two holes in the heart you will have a dead animal regardless if the bullet stops just outside the heart's off side or if it completely penetrates the cavity on the off side and exits. The two holes in the heart is what matters.

A non expanding sub can be used ethically. And if I lost the ability to make my hollow pointed cast then I would have no issue using a non expanding sub. But since I have the choice I will use an expanding one.

Correct and someone that has a choice doesn't mean that the other choice is inferior or unacceptable. I choose flat meplat bullets because in my 22 year hunting career those work better across the board than spitzers.

Just wanted to add a "thank you" for the knowledge and time of those who have contributed to this thread. Its been a great resource as I plan this hunting season.

Great write-up and as you can tell I'm new here. In your estimation would a 150gr SP, HP, or ballistic tip be effective on deer in a subsonic load?

Diablo wrote:Great write-up and as you can tell I'm new here. In your estimation would a 150gr SP, HP, or ballistic tip be effective on deer in a subsonic load?

No. no jacket 150gr jacketed 30 cal bullet will expand at those velocities. To my knowledge.

The expanding sub sonics work great on deer. Shot placement is key. It's like shooting them with a Arrow that is moving 3x the speed. The meat the bullet hits has very little to no damage. A vital organ or large artery has to be hit. There is no sonic wave traveling through the animals body that will make up for bad shot placement. I had excellent blood trails with the maker bullets. I see subsonic hunting like I do bow hunting. I know I will have to do some tracking and dragging back to the truck. Expansion is a must for me. Increases the chances of hitting something vital. But if your good just shoot it in the head or neck. Solves all the problems

dead and Dead Right There are different things.
I need DRT!
SC has no " right to retrieve" and our hunting areas are thick and small.
having one run a 100 yards could easily result in it winding up on another property.
heavy slow none landing bullets don't work for me.
that's why neck shots are my go to.

PSE1 wrote:dead and Dead Right There are different things.
I need DRT!

Well said. I think it depends what and where you hunt.
Personally, I use subs only for "Raccoon dog" hunting here in Finland. Quite small varmints, headshot is low light is not real option.
Damn sure they die when non expanding bullets make nice hole thru both lugns, but they still can run 15-20 meters. If they manage to run bushes, they are usually lost (without dog).
But that time, you don´t know if you hit them good or not. Personally, I "hate" those critters very much, but I never want to leave any animal suffering from bad hit.
That means, I must go hoome and bring my german pointer to search that critter. Many times they hide under rocks, caves etc. if they are wounded or not. In that case, it´s lost forever.
And I don´t know is it dead or wounded, whitch I hate. So, in my case expansion is very important.

Larry Kelly, who invented Magna-port, hunted all over the world with a hand gun. He discovered expanding bullets were definitely better killers than non-expanding bullets. There are some fantastic sub-sonic expanding bullets available now.

Rich Coyle wrote:Larry Kelly, who invented Magna-port, hunted all over the world with a hand gun. He discovered expanding bullets were definitely better killers than non-expanding bullets. There are some fantastic sub-sonic expanding bullets available now.

I'm new to the community, and to having a .300BLK. I've read most of the posts in this forum (but not all.) Am wondering which "fantastic sub-sonic expanding bullets" are available now. Been looking at the assortment on offer from the major suppliers but don't know what to believe. Thx!