300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

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SChunter
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by SChunter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:55 pm

Gds,

Excellent summary and comprehensive report!

I hope to continue to add to the "test data" early this year with our hog population...

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turboface20
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by turboface20 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:27 pm

how good is the 300blk at dropping a deer? ive never done it. haven't played with subs yet but if a sub could i cant see why a sonic couldn't? Hornady 125gr red tips should do the trick :mrgreen:

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rebel
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by rebel » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:29 pm

That my young friend, depends on you. If you read all the stuff posted, most find the BLK more than adequate for deer with supers. Some experienced folks like gds and TBM use subs like a crossbow. Some gripe of lack of blood trail yet find the deer within 75 yards. To sum it up, a good hit is a good hit, no matter what. Do your part and a 300 with the right bullet,like the one you mentioned, will do it's part.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.

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fat_mcnasty
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by fat_mcnasty » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:48 pm

Great post..

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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by TCustoms » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:58 am

I'm trying to source some 200g-210g bullets for my first loads, I found this thread in a google search not sure how I missed it before.

Great job on the info and observations.

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ds762
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by ds762 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:20 pm

turboface20 wrote:how good is the 300blk at dropping a deer? ive never done it. haven't played with subs yet but if a sub could i cant see why a sonic couldn't? Hornady 125gr red tips should do the trick :mrgreen:
Hornady 125 SST's work just fine!!

I actually like them over the Nosler 125 bsllistic tips.

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JakFrost273
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by JakFrost273 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:15 am

Just wanted to add a successful subsonic hunt to this thread since gds asked me to post up afterwards.

Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 194gr, COAL 2.180 or 2.220?
JakFrost273 wrote:Confirmed, those 2.220" rounds worked just fine and I bagged a 110lb hog within the first 10-minutes after the start of the "staged hunt".

A not-so-bright or too-much-of-a-brave hog walked up and down the fence line right up to 17-yards away from me a few minutes later in broad daylight as I was sitting bored watching some goats that came to eat all the corn on the ground. Too quick and a little too-good too be true so early, I let the guy walk all the way up and down the fence line before I decided to take him since he fit the criteria of what we wanted to bag for that day for tasty meat and be done with this whole "staged hunt".

I shot him in the lower rear lung area right in front of the liver about 2-inches above and 4 to the rear of his elbow. The bullet entered the rib cage, broke a rib and turned inside and proceeded through the lungs and up and out into his throat and neck area breaking his spine and causing paralysis and massive bleed-out, a 2-foot puddle of thick dark blood and brightly colored bubbling blood from the lungs. He twitched a few times and tried to move his head but his body was paralyzed and he died within 5-seconds. I saw him struggling after the first shot that put him down so I tried to euthanize him with a head-shot but missed due to being too quick to do it but he expired almost immediately anyway so it was unnecessary since there was no struggle.

No pictures of this since I did like my friends who had no cell signal and we all left our phones in the hunting lodge and relied on radios for communications instead. After we got the hogs back my friend got his phone and used it to take a video of the skinning process but his phone ran out of memory and recorded some footage but lost most of it. Anyway, nothing out-of-the-ordinary looking from the hog hit, ordinarily bloody internal organ damage, and pool of blood. Google some Images and they'll all look the same.

However, my bullets went supersonic on me with that tell-tale 2-by-4 slap even though they were only loaded with what should be 11.4gr of Accurate 1680 that was chronoed the day before at the range at 1,006 FPS average with 22 SD and 75 ES with min 970 FPS and max 1045 FPS at my range that was at ~60F at ASL 125ft and we were hunting at ~50F at 320ft ASL so no drastic elevation or temperature differences and similar weather. The only difference was that it was raining when I chronoed my loads on Saturday and next next day on Sunday it rained a few hours earlier but then stopped.

The only things I could think of that could have caused this is the low-pressure difference between the day it was raining and the next day while hunting, or there's a chance that I might have loaded some of these with 11.7gr since I was loading some SMK 220gr the same day. I'll pull the remaining 10-rounds to weight the powder in a little while.

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JakFrost273
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by JakFrost273 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:37 am

tallburnedmidget wrote:Nice work! Too bad about the not staying subsonic thing. In any case can you tell us:

-How far out you shot the hog at? (was it 17yds?)
-What you did to ensure a good shot was being taken? (marked off area, range finder, etc.)
-Prep work you did for the subsonic challenge?
-How much did the Subsonic Primer Hunting thread help?
-What did you learn that you did not expect?

[EDIT: Just noticed you also posted in the Subsonic Hunting Primer Thread, editing to request the answers be posted there instead of here.]
I know, lots of questions here but I am very curious and the answers really help build our knowledge when it comes to subsonic hunting. Please post the answers in the Subsonic Hunting Primer Thread http://300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 6&start=10 .

Thanks :)
-How far out you shot the hog at? (was it 17yds?)
-What you did to ensure a good shot was being taken? (marked off area, range finder, etc.)


It was 17-yards. I was sitting in a tree stand about 15-feet high and I ranged all the entry and egress points in the area with my new Leupold RX-1000i TBR with DNA Digital Laser Rangefinder (~$400 USD Amazon) so I knew the distances I would be likely shooting at. I also knew the angles I was shooting down at but at such close distances they wouldn't add perceptibly to the bullet drop.

The biggest concern for me was the very close distances and Sight Over Bore height of 72mm (2.84-inches) for my Trijicon ACOG TA11F (3.5x35mm) scope (~$1,000 online) on a LaRue Tactical ACOG Mount QD LT100 ($135).

At that 17-yards my Point of Impact would be 1.0-inch lower than my Point of Aim on the scope, but luckily it would stay at ~1-inch all the way to ~70-yards, which was the furthest distance I had a clear shot, but which was much too far away to even attempt to shoot when a bit of patience would result in the hogs getting a lot closer. Most of the likely points where I would see a hog were within 20-yards and a few were within 10-15-yards. Point blank distances and I only had to remember to aim 1-inch higher.

-Prep work you did for the subsonic challenge?

Without talking about the multi-year whole weapon, scope, suppressor selection process I basically have an Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) AR-15 originally as a Piston 16" (also with 16" Gas Stainless-Steel, 12" Piston, 10.5" Gas barrels in 5.56mm) registered as a Short-Barrel Rifle (SBR) and now their LMT 10.5-inch 300 AAC Blackout/Whisper barrel with a Pistol-Length gas system. I have the newest SureFire SOCOM762-RC FDE 7.62mm (30-Caliber) 8.3" suppressor (~$2,000 with Price, Tax, NFA Stamp, S&H) and SureFire SFMB-762-5/8-24 muzzle brake to be used as a quick-attach adapter. (I'd never again voluntarily shoot an SBR 10.5" or 12" with a muzzle-break without a suppressor, the sound shock produced is uncomfortable with -33 NDR rated hearing protection directly behind the gun, much less on the side. Shot it once, never again.)

I created a custom load for my gun after reading this thread, certified's load data, and many other threads on this forum and watched YouTube videos regarding loading for 300 AAC Blackout cartridge with Accurate 1680 powder and the highly recommended Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 194gr All-Copper Pre-Cut bullet ($77 + S&H x 50 bullets).

I created a load ladder of 5-cartriges loaded with A1680 using 11.0 to 11.8gr with 0.2 increments and chronoed them with my MagnetoSpeed V2 ($380) chronograph. The results were 11.0 = 930, 11.2 = 1,020, 11.4 = 1,049, 11.6 = 1,075, 11.8 = 1,123.

I found that 11.4gr produced a velocity of 1,049fps and seeing other manufacturer's (Lehigh Defense 1,040fps) who make subsonic loads advertise that their subsonic ammo is 1,050fps I settled on that as my target speed. I checked the Speed of Sound calculator which is 1,116fps at Sea Level at 65F so I had 66fps leeway and shooting at 125ft Above Sea Level at ~50F temperatures would be 1,106fso this would keep me well under it. (That's what I though and I was wrong, my load went supersonic on me, for the 2-shots fired, and 2-shots fired back at camp.).

I referred to Lehigh Defense's Load Data for my handloading numbers for Accurate 1680 powder for a 10" SBR barrel and their starting load was 12.0gr going down to 11.7gr to achieve a velocity of 1,050FPS. My chronograph originally predicted 11.4gr = 1,049gr the previous week, but on Saturday my results for a 10-shot string shot with the 11.4gr produced average velocity of 1,006fps, Standard Deviation 22fps, Extreme Spread 75fps, Minimum 970fps, and Maximum 1045fps. So about 45fps lower than the target 1,050fps. My load of 11.4gr was 0.3gr under the bullet manufacturer's recommended load so I felt comfortable that it would perform well and stay subsonic. (It went supersonic during the hunt.)

I also used the invaluable QuickLoad software to develop my load data calibrated for my rifle's barrel and chamber with attention paid to the AR magazine length (2.260" + .004" for Magpul PMAG Gen 2 Window), fire-formed Nosler 300 AAC Blackout cartridge H20 overflow volume of 24.30gr of water for subsonicly fired cases at ~28,000psi, Accurate 1680 powder burn rate of 0.6415Ba from the uncalibrated 0.8050Ba, 60F temperature, case height 1.360", and bullet measurements Length 1.516" +-0.010".

I used the accompanying QuickTarget and transferred the gun and load data into it from QuickTarget's custom handload data. I created graphs for a 50-Yard Sight-In distance to show me the Line of Bore, Line of Sight, Line of Target for this specific load so that I was aware of the Sight-Over-Bore height and how it affects my shot-dope for closer and further distances than my sight-in distance.

My Point Blank Range Zero is all the way out to 84-yards using a 1.57" (4cm) height of the default Vital shot area with a 1-inch drop all the way from 17-yards to 68-yards, which were almost the exact distances that I would be taking the closest and furthest shot at. Easy to remember a 1-inch drop. Closer than 10-yards the sight-over-bore distance of 2.83" inches starts coming into play so for close-quarter shots I had to remember to aim 2-3-inches higher.

(My load of 11.4gr that was subsonic the day before at the range for a 10-shot string at 1,006fps @ 60F @ 125ft ASL went supersonic the next day at 50F @ 320ft ASL. I pulled the bullets out and weight the charges checking for over-chrage user error on my part but the powder was all 11.4gr exactly so this was another issue. Currently investigating variables.)

-How much did the Subsonic Primer Hunting thread help?

I helped immensely, I used it as a guide for my experience along with a lot of other threads and posts that I read for about a month straight to familiarize myself with learning to handload and about the 300 AAC Blackout cartridge, subsonic reloading, powders, gas systems, bullets, and also about hunting hogs, subsonic expectations, bullet selection for proper expansion. That's how I learned about Lehigh Defense's Maximum Expansion bullets that I chose as my go-to round for subsonic hunting to guarantee reliable expansion and ethical kills on animals with minimal amount of suffering and quickest method of dispatching and expiration.

I did a lot of research on hog anatomy, optimal shot placement, distances of average encounters, and other strategies helped me understand and prepare for the staged hunt and further hunting and stalking on public lands or large private lands.

-What did you learn that you did not expect?

1. That a targeted 1,049fps load that choronoes a little slow at 1,006fps the day before as subsonic can go supersonic with a loud sonic crack the next day during the hunt and make me scratch my head in puzzlement and feel a bit embarrassed in front of the land owners and my friends who were concerned that someone else was shooting on their property because they weren't expecting me to shoot that day nor to hear my shot if I did have to shoot if my two friends didn't bag their 2 hogs.

2. That subsonic hunting works just fine and the performance of the subsonic loads with a PBR Zero of 84-yards is quite plenty for hunting most medium size game animals such as hogs and deer and others.

3. That subsonic hunting with a suppressor and not having to wear hearing protection only eye protection is an enjoyable pleasure to commune with nature and the sounds of the woods and the wild (or at least someone's fenced in hog wildlife refuge property.)

4. That doing tons of research and knowing the exact details before making handloads and the predictions using QuickLoad and QuickTarget software for your load and sight graphs is invaluable and takes a lot of guessing and trial-and-error out.

5. That reading and learning from other people's experiences including successes and mistakes can save you a lot of time, money, and frustration by doing things that work and skipping things that don't.

SChunter
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by SChunter » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:38 am

JakFrost,

Thank you for the informative write-up! Best of luck in eliminating your variables and quieting the report...regardless of the noise pollution, you still have a dead hog :)

Sounds like the ME bullets will work at a lower velocity, so provided your gun cycles and provides good accuracy, I woud suggest you drop your charge a little bit more towards 11.0gr.

Edit - how did your second/third shots on the range sound after your can was all gassed-up?


Happy Hunting!

tallburnedmidget
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Re: 300 blk Subsonic Hunting Primer

Post by tallburnedmidget » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:13 pm

Great right up! You definitely have a good excuse to shoot more subs in sorting out that going supersonic issue. I hope you have a good approach to substituting out the Lehigh's and narrowing down as many variables as possible so you don't throw away so many expensive bullets.

Best of luck :)

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