Kangaroo vs. 220 Outlaw State Subsonic

[Klem]

After hitting two others and watching them hop off as if nothing happened I finally managed to drop one with one shot to the boiler room at 70 metres. On approaching, it was still very much alive and alert. Another in the head and it finally went down.

The Outlaw State 220's acted like laser beams; in one side, out the other without doing anything more. No kinetic shock or energy dump, which to be fair you don't much of with subsonics. That night we dropped three more using .223, 55gn VMax. One shot each with massive fist-sized exit holes from the ballistic tips. Another to the head had the eyes popped out with over-pressure.

Blackout subsonic is over-rated...but good fun against paper.

[jwb47]

we dont have many roo's here in south east missouri but I will take this under advisement .

[Klem]

Not as large as some of the animals others hunt on this forum, but large roo's are a pretty good analogue for a person.

[randyrucker]

After hitting two others and watching them hop off as if nothing happened I finally managed to drop one with one shot to the boiler room at 70 metres. On approaching, it was still very much alive and alert. Another in the head and it finally went down.

The Outlaw State 220's acted like laser beams; in one side, out the other without doing anything more. No kinetic shock or energy dump, which to be fair you don't much of with subsonics. That night we dropped three more using .223, 55gn VMax. One shot each with massive fist-sized exit holes from the ballistic tips. Another to the head had the eyes popped out with over-pressure.

Blackout subsonic is over-rated...but good fun against paper.

The problem is the blk out just doesn't have any economical bullets available that will expand properly at subsonic speeds. Leighigh Defense is just to expensive for a lot of people to buy them in bulk. If a company came out with a bullet in the $30-35/box of 50, then i think we would have something. Leighigh is the only bullet I trust right now to properly expand at subsonic velocity.

[pruhdlr]

This is not intended to be critical of other hunters. Especially if they want to hunt "non-game" species,not intended for the table.

BUT..........please explain to me why you would intentionally HUNT with a subsonic load ?? Do you expect it to tumble ?? Among other things,the wound cavity as caused by hydrostatic shock. A big factor in creating this is....... bullet speed. --- pruhdlr

[tallburnedmidget]

This is not intended to be critical of other hunters. Especially if they want to hunt "non-game" species,not intended for the table.

BUT..........please explain to me why you would intentionally HUNT with a subsonic load ?? Do you expect it to tumble ?? Among other things,the wound cavity as caused by hydrostatic shock. A big factor in creating this is....... bullet speed. --- pruhdlr

My whole goal for sub hunting was to take multiple animals before they know what is going on. I took 2 doe this year within 10 seconds of one another with this principle.

Another good advantage of sub hunting is to reduce the amount of pressure on animals and exposure to the hunting BANG they may come to understand. This is what the guys who run the ranch I hunted on really liked and I had not thought about this until they mentioned it.

Now those are the advantages. There are many challenges to overcome like shot placement being more critical and more difficult to manage than any other round I've hunted with before. I have a whole lessons learned page from my experience shooting 4 animals and only bagging 3 all subsonic hunting this past month viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86180 .

I learned a lot about sub hunting this year and at first was a little disappointed but then came to understand that my thought processes was flawed and a bit ignorant. I now understand that sub hunting is new hunting challenge like switching from rifle to bow, or rifle to spear, etc. I have learned not to approach sub hunting like normal rifle hunting and to try and hone my skill to overcome the challenge that subsonic hunting presents, much like bow hunters do. I am still learning but I think I now have the correct mindset, definitely some areas to practice and improve upon, and I have some new approaches to try out (switching from Lehigh ME to Lehigh CF bullet).

The difficulty of sub hunting presents a new challenge that many might find exciting, but others may find to be too much and prefer simpler hunting methods. It is not for everyone, that is for sure. I hope my little bit of insight helps, thanks

[pruhdlr]

I can (kinda) relate . I hunt with an open sighted pistol(Glock 20). I look at it as I am bow hunting. Close range,stealth,complete camo,tree stand completely skirted or tent blind,etc. The deer and hogs that I have taken in this manner have only taken one shot. In fact for deer hunting I only load my mag with 5rds. For hogs 10rds. I understand what you are trying to accomplish and greatly appreciate the respectful answer to my post.

I would surely think that if you could put a heavy sub bullet thru both lungs and/or the heart of a deer or hog it would have to be AT LEAST as good as putting a broad head thru these organs. The bullet would not create as wide of a wound however,at even 1080fps it would create some hydrostatic shock. If it clipped a rib going it it would also produce some secondary missiles. Then I (personally) would hope for a exit hole to aid in a blood trail.

As I get older and my eyes get even worse off than they are now,I can forsee myself switching from my Glock to my Handi/BO shooting heavy bullets at the sub vels and keeping my Leupold 1-4X set on 1X. --- pruhdlr

[Whole Bunches]

This is not intended to be critical of other hunters. Especially if they want to hunt "non-game" species,not intended for the table.

BUT..........please explain to me why you would intentionally HUNT with a subsonic load ?? Do you expect it to tumble ?? Among other things,the wound cavity as caused by hydrostatic shock. A big factor in creating this is....... bullet speed. --- pruhdlr

I hunt non-game species around my farm suppressed and subsonic so as to not be noticed at night, lest someone think there are poachers poaching, and not bother the neighbors and my sleeping wife.

[Klem]

This is not intended to be critical of other hunters. Especially if they want to hunt "non-game" species,not intended for the table.

BUT..........please explain to me why you would intentionally HUNT with a subsonic load ??

Why would anyone want to evaluate the effects of dedicated subsonic hunting rounds on flesh from a military assault rifle? Perhaps they are the military. Or perhaps they want a quiet round so as not to spook game and/or attract attention from people in the vicinity. Or like you said, want a type of hunting where you have to get close to be humane.

For the record, I took the meat. While many don't particularly care for it, my dog loves it.

[tallburnedmidget]

I can (kinda) relate . I hunt with an open sighted pistol(Glock 20). I look at it as I am bow hunting. Close range,stealth,complete camo,tree stand completely skirted or tent blind,etc. The deer and hogs that I have taken in this manner have only taken one shot. In fact for deer hunting I only load my mag with 5rds. For hogs 10rds. I understand what you are trying to accomplish and greatly appreciate the respectful answer to my post.

I would surely think that if you could put a heavy sub bullet thru both lungs and/or the heart of a deer or hog it would have to be AT LEAST as good as putting a broad head thru these organs. The bullet would not create as wide of a wound however,at even 1080fps it would create some hydrostatic shock. If it clipped a rib going it it would also produce some secondary missiles. Then I (personally) would hope for a exit hole to aid in a blood trail.

As I get older and my eyes get even worse off than they are now,I can forsee myself switching from my Glock to my Handi/BO shooting heavy bullets at the sub vels and keeping my Leupold 1-4X set on 1X. --- pruhdlr

Wow never thought of pistol hunting like that, but then again I'm not really a pistol guy. I learn something new every day

The 300BLK does not seem to be so hot on blood trails (super or subs in my limited experience) so shot placement is once again key. I had the best exit with the 110gr TTSX. I have a feeling I will be switching to the 110gr Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos for some more DRT supersonic shots and the largest Lehigh Defense Controlled Fracture round for sub hunting since I cannot stand the fact that I lost an animal and I saw first hand that an expanding sub did not penetrate the front shoulder blade when fully expanded. I will now try to avoid the front shoulder when sub hunting and do double lung shots with the Lehigh CF to cause maximum vital damage.

I'm hoping more people report on their sub hunt findings as I am big on learning from the wisdom and/or mistakes of others