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 Post subject: Subsonic hunting!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:30 am 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:55 am
Posts: 56
Location: Northeast of KCMO
Awhile back I started looking into 300 Blackout and stated I had little interest unless I could hunt effectively with subsonic ammo. I use FMJ for plinking and trigger time, but when it comes to HD and hunting, I would prefer to have something meant to expand and cause a "humane kill" in game. Way I see it, a "humane kill" with game means a FAST kill....so for HD or a PDW, I would prefer something to kill as fast as possible and have little interest in mil-spec, NATO, Geneva convention,....whatever.

I heard of Outlaw State Bullets (OSB) and how they SUPPOSEDLY had some accurate 220gr .30 cal bullets that would expand BELOW the speed of sound! Well, spent my money to order 100 bullets at some absurd price like $126-130 for 100 BULLETS! Did as the guy from OSB suggested and loaded with 220gr SMK to sight in, then check POA v POI with OSB bullets. Even though the profile of the bullets were no where close to each other, he was dead on and the load we developed for SMK accuracy also lead to OSB accuracy. At 50yd, a dime could cover all 5 rounds fired, and chewed the center of the bullseye out. I sighted at 50yd btw, and intended 75yd to be max range for this rifle. I have a .308 and the same 762SD silencer for anything further out after all. The load we used was 11.2gr AA1680, Remington 7.5 primer, and COAL of 2.120".

Deer season, for lack of better words, sucked this year. High temps and too much wind lead to deer. Of moving and I didn't have anything even come within sight, let alone range, opening weekend or yesterday. The sun this evening was starting to get low in the sky, and even tho the temp was lower and wind was almost calm, I was planning to call it a day in the next 45 minutes. Behind my stand in our field a doe stepped out at about 100yd, after slowing and quietly turning around, she got to between 110-115yd when I got a head on her and let the hammer drop. My gun sounded like a quiet pellet gun......but the bullet impact sounded like something I've never heard before, and didn't expect. It was a loud THUD, sounding something like a sledge hammer hitting a sack of puddy. She never took another step, moved a front leg just enough to spin a 1/2 turn on the ground and then layed still. She died as fast as any deer I've shot with any other caliber (.223, .22-250, .243, .270,....).

I waited to see if anything else would come out, and once it was clear there wasn't, I walked from my stand to her. I could easily see the small .30 caliber hole on her left side, but could not find an exit wound. When I brought her back to clean, I discovered why! I overcompensated for the amount of drop at that distance and hit her at a slight downward angle, hitting from the upper left chest, thru the spine, and into the left shoulder, stopping barely under the hide. When I removed the hide, I retrieved the intact bullet (and lots of bone fragments) with my fingers and little effort.

I will add pictures of the deer, gun, loaded ammo, and retrieved bullet tomorrow when I have a PC at my disposal instead of an iPhone.

I am very impressed and happy with OSB bullets and our handloads. If I get anywhere close to running out of these loads, I will be making another order with them!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:35 am
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Location: MISSOURI
Good work eazenutz33. With a 100 yd zero your max ordinate will be 3" high at 60yds and at 120 yds the drop will be about 4"low. If you are shooting big bodied deer this is very doable. If you have a low powered mil-dot scope or a first focal plane recticle you can figure drops with it. Alleycat72 is running a leuopold scope with a custom recticle for subsonic fire. With this scope and a laser rangefinder he was able to make a 240yd kill. Subsonic hunting is like long range hunting without the wind and the range.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:11 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 429
Location: texas
Ive killed this pig from 80 yards ... video and pic included... it dropped right there... bullet was total pass through. However I don't guarantee that this is repeatable performance! 220 SMK! sub

Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYckvdFbbU

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:55 am
Posts: 56
Location: Northeast of KCMO
Pre-warning....picture and word heavy!

Start from an age ago....what I like to call "last week" or November 12th to make things easier. Opening day of deer season and saw...NOTHING. Buddy and I both had our 8" Noveske barreled uppers and 762SD silencers for deer season. Mine loaded with Outlaw State Bullets (OSB) in handloads, his with identical loads using Nosler 220gr partitions. We were hoping to shoot deer to compare what wounds were cheated by each load...but alas, no deer. After seeing no deer we decided to test results on jugs of water.

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We fired his round and they went through 4-5, or more, jugs of water entering with a perfectly round .30 cal hole and exiting the same, with the exception of the last jug, that was left with a nice knife like exit hole showing the bullet finally yamed.

We fired my round into remaining water jugs, the first in line being a 1/2 gallon jug.
A nice .30 cal entrance hole was noticeable.
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The exit hole on the other hand was....well....FUBAR! Nowhere close to being round, and the picture does not do justice to how messed up the jug looked. Nothing was found in this jug.
Image
In the next jug, a much larger container (protein shake jug) with heavier plastic wall and holding 3-4 times the water, we found the bullet pieces, jacket,....
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Tho the pieces were not nicely mushroomed like you always see pictures of.....flesh is not the exact consistency of jugs of water with different types of plastic between.

I now felt more confident about hunting with this round, and continued to do so. My buddy switched to his .308 after ordering himself some OSB bullets. (Do I get a commission? haha)

As stated in the previous OP, I finally got to take a deer with this gun/round last evening and was very impressed. I DO realize a spine shot would have dropped a deer in its tracks with almost any round, but I am impressed at the amount of energy deposited into the deer, how well the bullet did at that distance considering it had to be scrubbing FPS and energy, and the amount of drop it had.

Here she is.....good sized doe in the back of a Kawasaki Mule. She filled the bed like a decent sized buck would. The round is for comparison as well.
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Loaded PMag limited to 10rd for Missouri hunting laws.
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Freshly retrieved bullet. Came out with chunks of bone from the spine and shoulder blade. Was just under the skin on the opposite side, stuck in the muscle. It went through a rib on the entrance side, slightly deflected up into the spine, then slightly dow through a rib and the shoulder blade on the exit side. The bullet managed to send a piece of itself through one lung and the aorta, filling the chest cavity with blood. I think a side shot at 50 yards would have had one nasty hole for an exit wound.
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Took the bullet in the house to clean it up...I didnt think to toss some calipers on there to see what the new width was, but I would venture a guess that it is between .42 and .45 inches in diameter now.
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I did think to weigh the bullet to see what the retained mass was.....177.8 grains from a 220 grain bullet....42.2grains were left in the organs and spine. From looking at the bullet closely, I believe that 100% of the jacket is intact.
Image

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Final thoughts on this kill.....I personally believe (and could be wrong) that as much bone as this bullets went through, the expansion is great. I think that if has been through more soft tissue and less bone, it may have expanded more into a wider mushroom shape. My thought here is that passing through the harder bone may have helped fold the jacket back flatter instead of allowing a steadier expansion. Whether I'm right or wrong, I will definitely be hunting with this round for quite some time. Right now I have around 80 rounds loaded up to hunt with, and considering I usually fire 1-5 rounds per year at deer, plus 2-3 rounds to check zero.....I should be good for awhile, but may order another 100 bullets from OSB to have in reserve!

BTW....I am in no way affiliated with outlawstatebullets.com...just happy with my reloads. I would recommend trying their stuff if you are considering hunting with a subsonic round.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:34 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Western Michigan
Nicely done!

I kept thinking I needed to call you up this Fall and invite myself to your farm to help you with your deer problem, but the schedule wasn't there this time around. Maybe next year.

We just got suppressors legal here, so my stuff was able to come out of storage. But they still don't allow them for hunting. So Missouri is still looking like the better location.

I'd just have to decide which quiet host to use: the 16" AR15/.300, the Contender SBR /.300Whisper, or the Desert Eagle .44...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:55 am
Posts: 56
Location: Northeast of KCMO
Garrett wrote:
Nicely done!

I kept thinking I needed to call you up this Fall and invite myself to your farm to help you with your deer problem, but the schedule wasn't there this time around. Maybe next year.

We just got suppressors legal here, so my stuff was able to come out of storage. But they still don't allow them for hunting. So Missouri is still looking like the better location.

I'd just have to decide which quiet host to use: the 16" AR15/.300, the Contender SBR /.300Whisper, or the Desert Eagle .44...

You're always welcome......and I vote .44!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:09 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:34 pm
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Location: Western Michigan
eazenutz33 wrote:
You're always welcome......and I vote .44!

The .44 is fun, and surprisingly accurate. But I'm on the fence about that one. It's still relatively loud, due to the gas system. It dumps gas out of the gas port, which is not suppressed. So you still get some "bang" to the gun.

I tried shooting it with a small amount of water in the can today, and it made a world of difference. Apparently, some of the water is also pushed back through the gas system as well, which cools the gasses here too... which makes it not want to cycle so well.

I got it to run for a few rounds with some factory supersonic ammo, but it turned into a single-shot with my subsonic 240 gr. handloads. This load needs the added back pressure from the can just to cycle anyway. I haven't found any load with less than a 300 gr. bullet that will cycle at subsonic velocities without the can in place.

The gun was being cranky today. It usually runs great, but I haven't really played with it in the cold much. Apparently it will only run when it wants to. It's starting to remind me of my Reising.

(Oh yeah - and to keep things on topic - .300WTF in the background. :mrgreen: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dSw8rbZLOs
(is there a way to embed videos directly to the page?)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:23 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:55 am
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Location: Northeast of KCMO
The sound was great...stinks it doesn't cycle with that load tho! Of course, shooting a deer with a 300gr .44cal slug sounds like alot of fun!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:28 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:34 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Western Michigan
eazenutz33 wrote:
The sound was great...stinks it doesn't cycle with that load tho! Of course, shooting a deer with a 300gr .44cal slug sounds like alot of fun!

Yeah - here's a couple of subs that cycled. I think they were the 300 gr. loads. That was a couple of years ago when I recorded that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhgZYBRh0ZI


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:55 am
Posts: 56
Location: Northeast of KCMO
Impressive!

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