Shooting Stats

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Walkers Bay
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Shooting Stats

Post by Walkers Bay » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:22 am

So since I do a little bit of hunting and night shooting for Red deer I've starting running a note book with observations.
What works, weather, times and kills, seen deer etc.
I sat down and did a data crunch tonight and some interesting reading and what I thought were patterns for success might not be quite iron tight.

So since October 2016 we have documented 39 trips out.
23 at night under a spotlight.
We have had 15 trips where we have seen nothing (some just scouting and not really hunting hard), seen 160 deer on the hoof, of them we shot and recovered 37, missed 15 and lost 4 hit deer.
That's 4.2 deer sightings every single trip and a kill rate of 1.12 deer a trip.

What was interesting to me was I always thought the best night to spotlight was a moonless night.
Turns out its a 50/50, makes no difference.
Weather temps make very little difference but rain drops it to a 1 in 4 chance of coming home with and animal.
Wind really knocks your chances to 1 in 20.


Owen

Ps 2016 we didn't document most of the year but we totalled up at 55 deer. And 2017 didn't do many trips at all.

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dellet
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by dellet » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:07 am

Hey Walker,

If you have time, it would be interesting to know, and very helpful for a lot of people, things like average weight of the animal, bullet used and shot placement. There is so much poor information and ideas out there still about the cartridge. People think you should be able to shoot through both shoulders or in the left hip and have the bullet exit the right shoulder. It’s just no real expectations.

Some of the favorite bullets get a bad rap because they don’t exit the off side, when the basic fact is they were designed more as a tactical bullet with limited penetration and high energy dump. I think you and Tika probably have the most hands on experience with larger animals on the forum and your knowledge would be very helpful.

Thanks for the information so far.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Walkers Bay
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by Walkers Bay » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:39 am

dellet wrote:Hey Walker,

If you have time, it would be interesting to know, and very helpful for a lot of people, things like average weight of the animal, bullet used and shot placement. There is so much poor information and ideas out there still about the cartridge. People think you should be able to shoot through both shoulders or in the left hip and have the bullet exit the right shoulder. It’s just no real expectations.

Some of the favorite bullets get a bad rap because they don’t exit the off side, when the basic fact is they were designed more as a tactical bullet with limited penetration and high energy dump. I think you and Tika probably have the most hands on experience with larger animals on the forum and your knowledge would be very helpful.

Thanks for the information so far.
That's a good idea. Have kept every projectile recovered out of animals and a lot of photos of damage done etc.
I'm on night shift so I'll have a read though my note book and see what I can remember.
As for punching though sholders....yeah a 300 can do that on a hind no problems at 100m but then it can also expend all its energy on the neck of a stag and not leave an exit hole.

I've found it amazing and odd in real world applications.

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Walkers Bay
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by Walkers Bay » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:14 am

As requested.
I have good data for 24 animals I have defiantly shot with a 300blk.
The only hunting round I use is a 110gr V max. The only thing I have changed is the powder and weight to extract more speed and accuracy.

I can't tell you how many times I've had a exit wound but i do remember a large number of times where the projectiles were found on the far side just under the skin.

Right out of 24 deer.
Red Stags in antler weigh between 350lb and 530lb, ours are on the lighter side of this maybe 400lb ave.
5 of these (total)I have noted were neck shot around 100 yards and have broken the bone not exited. One I recall was 6 inches of soild meat and bone.
Hinds weigh between 260lb and 370lb again lighter. Maybe 290lbs...
Only 4 mature hinds noted. I remember 2 of these were running and got hit chest and body and 1 rear hip. The other 2 were chest/ shoulder.
The round is perfectly capable of blowing a round bone in half and still exiting the far rib. Hinds are 50-50 having an exit wound.
I have shot 2 yearling stags, 8 yearling hinds and (cough cough) 5 fawns....yeah I'm not starting an etics debate...it is what it is.
Exit holes are far more common with young animals even with shoulder bone and chest hits.

Total noted hit zones.
5 neck
14 Chest/shoulder
5 body
1 leg (bonus deer hit by a passed though round that knocked out back hocks. Finished with head)

Truck records are 3 deer killed out of 1 mob at night, 4 in day light. 4 at night in 2 mob is a big truck full
The most animals seen in a trip was 21.
The quickest was 2 minutes into a night and we were on the board.


Any questions just ask I will see what I can squeeze out of this book.

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AggieJim
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by AggieJim » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:35 pm

Sometimes penetration is not always bad. This is a good example.

My neighbor and I shared a deer lease in North Texas together.

It was what we refer to as "Dirty Dark", just prior to sunset.

He shot a doe with a .243. I met up with him as we were going home about then.

He said "Man I really screwed up, I shot two does but only have one doe tag left on my license."

What happened he fired at one deer without realizing another doe was standing next to it. One bullet killed both does. The pass through bullet from doe #1 also killed doe #2. I only heard one shot and knew that he had fired one shot.

I gave him one of my doe tags to keep things on the up and up. We talked about that a lot afterwards.

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smustian
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by smustian » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:04 pm

AggieJim wrote:Sometimes penetration is not always bad. This is a good example.

My neighbor and I shared a deer lease in North Texas together.

It was what we refer to as "Dirty Dark", just prior to sunset.

He shot a doe with a .243. I met up with him as we were going home about then.

He said "Man I really screwed up, I shot two does but only have one doe tag left on my license."

What happened he fired at one deer without realizing another doe was standing next to it. One bullet killed both does. The pass through bullet from doe #1 also killed doe #2. I only heard one shot and knew that he had fired one shot.

I gave him one of my doe tags to keep things on the up and up. We talked about that a lot afterwards.
Hopefully a Texas Game Warden does not see that. Using your tag on HIS kill is not legal "to keep things on the up and up" as you did not pull the trigger. Where I live, both animals would be confiscated, possible both losing licenses and possible fines. Careful what you decide to state in a public forum as it may not turn out good for you.

tikkablk
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by tikkablk » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:28 am

I stopped using a log book years ago of all my kills with times of day, where, moon phase, distance etc.

The red deer I shoot are about the same size and weight as WalkerBay deer, i run 3 magazines with 3 different loads for however the day unfolds.

1# 125gr BT super sonics for head, neck in close range under 160m and body rib shots out to 250m-300m. 25m-160m They smash the necks, legs, shoulders to bits and the bullet disintegrates and still turn lungs to jelly, under 160m the bullets had a few of total pass throughs on no bone hit broadside body lung shots and most of the time they don’t run far 50m at most, the organs looked like rabbit hit with a 55gr varmint bullet from a 223. Beyond 160m the projectile mushrooms like a standard soft point and shot placement in critical not to get runners or a double tap is required.

2# Lehigh Defence 168gr CF or 194gr ME, this is my main go to sub sonic bullet for body shot out to 250m, I’ve dropped quite a few deer on the spot with heart shots with massive blood loss with both bullets complete pass throughs and not. It’s quite surprising that a 168gr CF will pass through a 200lb-350lb deer “ the base that is”. From bad shot placement on shoulders instead of rib cage I’ve had to double tap the odd deer.

3# 208gr A-max/ELD, this is my main goat culling projectile head,neck and body if on the run. It is also my most accurate projectile “1/4MOA” and I’m quite happy head shooting dead deer out too 250m with this round in perfect conditions.

I used a bunch of other bullets 230gr Berger OTM they were terrible for ricocheting off heads, 220grRN was a flying brick ok for lineing up 2 goats broadside with one shot and no accuracy, 150gr sst very quiet but not enough accuracy. 151gr cast HP, really cheap with average accuracy but doesn’t magazine feed single only and not good enough for goat culling or double tapping.

Shot placement:
Probably 1/4 of the shots I do is head shot being in between the eyes, ear or back of the base of the head neck. Neck shot broadside or straight on if I can’t get a clear shot to between the eyes.
Body shots broadside on the crease,I try to avoid shoulders with subs if possible or go for a double tap the Lehigh’s open too fast too penetrate the shoulder blade.

One thing I must say in my limited 35 years hunting I’ve shot 4 digit numbers of deer and the same with goats with numerous calibers but mostly 223rem. And a lot of guys aren’t going to pull off a lotta the shots I do.
So I know when i squeeze the trigger it a good shot or if not I’ve cycled the bolt instantly for a double tap, some times I’ll fire another just to make sure it’s hit good or if it a serious runner because I hate tracking miles away from the first shot even with the help of the dog.

I’m out goat culling tomorrow for a few days and a couple of stags as well on a friends property he’s having trouble with the farm trophy stags fighting with the wild stags through the fences. The 300 blackout doesn’t disturb the farm stags.

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dellet
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by dellet » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:28 am

tikkablk wrote:I stopped using a log book years ago of all my kills with times of day, where, moon phase, distance etc.

The red deer I shoot are about the same size and weight as WalkerBay deer, i run 3 magazines with 3 different loads for however the day unfolds.

1# 125gr BT super sonics for head, neck in close range under 160m and body rib shots out to 250m-300m. 25m-160m They smash the necks, legs, shoulders to bits and the bullet disintegrates and still turn lungs to jelly, under 160m the bullets had a few of total pass throughs on no bone hit broadside body lung shots and most of the time they don’t run far 50m at most, the organs looked like rabbit hit with a 55gr varmint bullet from a 223. Beyond 160m the projectile mushrooms like a standard soft point and shot placement in critical not to get runners or a double tap is required.

2# Lehigh Defence 168gr CF or 194gr ME, this is my main go to sub sonic bullet for body shot out to 250m, I’ve dropped quite a few deer on the spot with heart shots with massive blood loss with both bullets complete pass throughs and not. It’s quite surprising that a 168gr CF will pass through a 200lb-350lb deer “ the base that is”. From bad shot placement on shoulders instead of rib cage I’ve had to double tap the odd deer.

3# 208gr A-max/ELD, this is my main goat culling projectile head,neck and body if on the run. It is also my most accurate projectile “1/4MOA” and I’m quite happy head shooting dead deer out too 250m with this round in perfect conditions.

I used a bunch of other bullets 230gr Berger OTM they were terrible for ricocheting off heads, 220grRN was a flying brick ok for lineing up 2 goats broadside with one shot and no accuracy, 150gr sst very quiet but not enough accuracy. 151gr cast HP, really cheap with average accuracy but doesn’t magazine feed single only and not good enough for goat culling or double tapping.

Shot placement:
Probably 1/4 of the shots I do is head shot being in between the eyes, ear or back of the base of the head neck. Neck shot broadside or straight on if I can’t get a clear shot to between the eyes.
Body shots broadside on the crease,I try to avoid shoulders with subs if possible or go for a double tap the Lehigh’s open too fast too penetrate the shoulder blade.

One thing I must say in my limited 35 years hunting I’ve shot 4 digit numbers of deer and the same with goats with numerous calibers but mostly 223rem. And a lot of guys aren’t going to pull off a lotta the shots I do.
So I know when i squeeze the trigger it a good shot or if not I’ve cycled the bolt instantly for a double tap, some times I’ll fire another just to make sure it’s hit good or if it a serious runner because I hate tracking miles away from the first shot even with the help of the dog.

I’m out goat culling tomorrow for a few days and a couple of stags as well on a friends property he’s having trouble with the farm trophy stags fighting with the wild stags through the fences. The 300 blackout doesn’t disturb the farm stags.
Thanks Tikka.

Those are points that really need to be driven home as often as possible. Your experience really is invaluable.


One question,

How do you keep your scope settings sorted?

I assume you have a Zero recorded or marked for each load and just adjust from that number to the calculated number for the range of the shot.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

tikkablk
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Re: Shooting Stats

Post by tikkablk » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:00 pm

First up I’m running a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42 MOAR reticle zerostop with a 20MOA turret per turn.

I’ve got my scope zeroed 60m with 0 turret dial setup for subs, so all I do is range, dail and squeeze the trigger with the MOA numbers matching up as it would on a regular rifle.


60m zero for supers with a -9MOA set on the zerostop which is 11MOA numbered on the turret. I MUST keep track of the MOA required for the shot,
For example 165m deer needs 4MOA dailup so that = 15MOA on the turret.
250m rabbit needs 9MOA dailup = 0MOA on the turret.
278m goat needs 11MOA dailup = 2MOA on the turret.

It’s a quick and easy enough system to use once you rap your head around it, and if you get lost in the turrets just go back to the zerostop and start again simple.

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