New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

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tallburnedmidget
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by tallburnedmidget »

Bspurr13 wrote:"Tough crowd today."

Just the first two - but that's ok, I have thick skin. Plus, the other 3 of you guys took some time, from busy lives, to give me some great info and advise - and it's much appreciated.

The difference in bullet lengths was a big factor in making me realizing I had done at least one thing wrong - prob 2 (bullet depth, on top of too big a charge). Yikes! In a few places the reference material has the 165 and 168 grain bullets lumped together like 165/168. But as I looked closer I saw the different dimensions, resizing it would seat deeper. Plus I sat it too deep anyway, regardless of the dimension difference.

On load data.com I found the bullet / powder combo that I needed (I signed up today).

With that bullet, and a COL of 2.26, the powder range is 11.8 - 14.2 - sound right to everyone?

So, I'll get a pullin - then do a real "work up".

Hi there and welcome!

I think the guys have covered the main parts about pulling the bullets and starting over.

Also you should know that "safely" working up a load is the general best practice of starting 10% below the minimum load and then building a "ladder" upwards to higher grain loadings.
A "ladder" means you will load a number of bullets (lets say 8 ) at one load grain of weight, then the next set at a slightly higher, and continue until you reach desired speeds, accuracy, and/or pressure signs.

For example my last ladder I was using published data that listed the powder + bullet + COAL (Cartridge OverAll Length) so I didn't start 10% below the minimum, I started at the minimum. I then worked up in .3gr (grain) intervals staying within the published load data until I hit my desired accuracy without seeing pressure signs.

When I load with an unknown bullet I work up safely to a comparable bullet and load.
For example, I have some 148gr FMJ's that have no load data. So I use a published 150gr load as my reference.
I make sure I use the same powder and I have the same amount of bullet in case with my 148gr bullet as would be with the 150gr bullet. You must do a little research like dellet did or have both bullets on hand and measure the length differences to get an idea on how to make sure you keep the amount of bullet in case the same between the two bullets.
Finally I work up a load "safely" by following the practice of starting 10% below the minimum published load data of the 150gr bullet load.

If you can get your hands on the ABC's of Reloading book it is good for general practice info and safety when it comes to reloading. I hope you find this info helpful :)
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dellet
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by dellet »

From Hornady 9th

165 SST
2.215" COL
11.8-14.2gr 4227

The 10th edition is on the streets now, it would be a valuable thing to have on the shelf.

Without knowing the profile of the bullet or a way to check to see if it hits the rifling in your barrel, I would not load it any longer than 2.215".
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
rjacobs
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by rjacobs »

tallburnedmidget wrote: Also you should know that "safely" working up a load is the general best practice of starting 10% below the minimum load
Did you mean to post 10% below the book MAX load?

I couldnt imagine starting 10% below the min load. I believe typical min book numbers are generally already ~10% below the book max. I guess I cant imagine starting another 10% down and working up from there. I could actually see that being just as dangerous as being to high as you COULD in certain circumstances stick a bullet in the barrel or with a powder like H110 get weird burn characteristics and possibly blow a gun up due to low case fill.

I do start at book min and typically check 2-3 different sources and usually go with the most conservative.
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Bspurr13
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by Bspurr13 »

You guys are awesome!
tallburnedmidget
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by tallburnedmidget »

rjacobs wrote:
tallburnedmidget wrote: Also you should know that "safely" working up a load is the general best practice of starting 10% below the minimum load
Did you mean to post 10% below the book MAX load?

I couldnt imagine starting 10% below the min load. I believe typical min book numbers are generally already ~10% below the book max. I guess I cant imagine starting another 10% down and working up from there. I could actually see that being just as dangerous as being to high as you COULD in certain circumstances stick a bullet in the barrel or with a powder like H110 get weird burn characteristics and possibly blow a gun up due to low case fill.

I do start at book min and typically check 2-3 different sources and usually go with the most conservative.
I go 10% below min published. The IMR Reloading Safety guidelines state to load "10% below the recommended charge weight".
http://www.imrpowder.com/safe.html

I've always looked at the published load data's minimum value as the "recommended" charge weight. Why?
Well most published load data will identify the most "accurate" load which can be interpreted as as the recommended charge weight BUT they only pick one powder and loading. When not using the powder of the "accurate" load I default to the the minimum load of the powder I am using as the suggested powder load and go 10% below to work up my load ladder.

I see your concern for weird things happening with too low of a charge. I am curious what others have to say on the topic of going 10% below the lowest published load weight. I feel that being 1-2 grains low on most super loads is a much safer bet than being wrong on the hot end of the published load data.

Everyone please offer your thoughts and expertise :)
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by DoubleJ »

S.E.E.

http://africanxmag.com/secondary_explosion_effect.htm

I generally start in the middle, work up till I get what I'm after, and back down 6% if I change anything minor, 10% if I make a major change.
I do not reply to posts with horrific grammar errors.

I do not reply to posts concerning the case mouth dent.
rjacobs
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by rjacobs »

tallburnedmidget wrote: I see your concern for weird things happening with too low of a charge. I am curious what others have to say on the topic of going 10% below the lowest published load weight. I feel that being 1-2 grains low on most super loads is a much safer bet than being wrong on the hot end of the published load data.
1-2 gr low when talking 300blk stuff probably isnt a huge deal, although with subs it might be.

Looking at something like a 308 load of 40 gr, 4g low probably isnt the end of the world. Using my 6.5creed as an example 36g(starting load) is like 2700fps. 39.9g(where I load) is 2900fps. So 33g might be something like 2500fps. Again probably not the end of the world, but might not cycle my AR very well.

338LM might be 10 gr low.

50bmg might be 25 gr low.

H110 when it gets below something like 95% case capacity can do weird things according to a lot of people. When I first started loading the 150g FMJBT pulls and was using H110 I was getting pressure signs(bad ones like bulged cases) WAY WAY early. My buddy who shoots almost exclusively 44mag said my case fill was probably pretty low % wise. He actually had buddy try to load powder puff loads using H110 with 44mag and blew up the gun.

To me, min data from a powder manufacturer is all I need to know to start with and ill build my pressure ladder from there. I guess I see no need to go even lower. NOW a bullet manufacturer data, I dont necessarily trust as much as I do the powder manufacturers since bullet manufacturers obviously dont have all the data on burn rates and such that the powder manufacturer has. So their data is based on either computer modeling OR hopefully they have their own pressure transducer rigs. I think Sierra does(ive been in their test rig tunnel) but I have no clue on any of the others.
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plant.one
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by plant.one »

just for some variety, this is my standard initial load 'work up'

take a bullet and powder, find published data (usually right in my trusty hornady's 9th edition as i mostly use their bullets)

load 3 cartridges starting at min published load, and work up in 0.5 grain increments until i get to max. These will be loaded to book recommended OAL.

mark the charge weight on the side of each load with a sharpie

head to the range with a stack of these targets, each with a charge weight written above them, and shoot the individual charges as groups all while watching for pressure signs

http://www.lyndenhuggins.com/hunting/in ... opment.pdf


here's a great write up of how to read basic pressure signs when doing load developement with LOTS of pictures.

https://www.primalrights.com/articles/u ... g-pressure


you might even get lucky and find one that ends up like this :)

Image

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as a side note - you dont state what your intended use is for that 165 SST. The reason i bring this up - its probably a poor choice if you're trying to develope a hunting load for your blackout because the bullet is intended for use in higher velocity calibers (like the 308 or 30-06) and as such will likely not expand at velocity's typical for a bullet of this weight in the 300 blk.

If you're just gonna be killing some paper or banging steel, rock on with your bad self! it'll do that more than gracefully!

however, for hunting purposes, most of us are using 110-125 grain bullets. the 110 barnes blacktip, the 110 vmax and the 125 SST are a couple of the big favorites for folks here and have taken a lot of game. These bullets will perform at the distances most hunting is done at (125 yds or less) and at blackout speeds. Mind you, those aren't going to be your only options as good hunting bullets, but they're a great place to get started, and there's a lot of data, testing and successful killing done with all 3 of them.


welcome to the site, and here's to wishing you a lot of success with your adventure into reloading.


ps- as a parting shot..... dont believe it for one second that reloading will save you so much as a single penny. However what you will find happen is that your ammo budget, when used for reloading purposes will let you shoot more for the same amount of $$. I dont say this to dissuade you, just to make sure you understanding the rabbit hole you're going down - and where many of us are already at :) Scratching your itchy trigger finger more is always a good thing 8) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Reloading info shared is based on experiences w/ my guns. Be safe and work up your loads from published data. Web data may not be accurate/safe.
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Bspurr13
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by Bspurr13 »

I def came to the right place! Thanks so much for the replies - all of you (even the first 2 lol) and please keep them coming.

I was looking for something in the 110 - 125 range (I've used Barnes factory loads in that range) but things are a little crazy here in CA. Crazier than normal (F%&K!&g Crazy is the norm here in CA) because we just passed a bill that will require a background check for ammo. Just imagine how many innocent lives that's gonna save (sarcasm intended!), because all of our many criminals and gang-bangers buy their guns and ammo through legal channels.

Anyway, I've been wanting to reload for years - but that just put the fire under my butt (that, and the state of our republic). But, it seems as if that fire has been lit all over CA. I waited 2 weeks for 1 pound of IMR 4227 and 1 of Varget. Gonna have to bite the bullet (too easy) and buy in bulk, online, I guess - and pay the Haz-mat.

Anyway - Thanks again.
Bspurr13
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Re: New to re-loading - fist batch too hot?

Post by Bspurr13 »

Oh, and I figured out pretty quick that is wasn't gonna save me anything. But anything that lets me shoot more, is cool with me. Plus I actually enjoy every bit of it so far, and am looking forward to actually going out and seeing / learning how each different aspect, of each load affects ballistics and accuracy. Very fun so far.
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