Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

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voip-1
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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by voip-1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:04 am

smustian wrote:If you plan to pull the bullets and resize the brass, do yourself a favor and get or borrow a collet puller. Much faster and much easier. A kinetic puller is ok for a couple but after that it sucks. I have also used my collet puller to adjust COAL on factory rounds that did not shoot well in my rifle. I adjusted them in .005 increments until they shot well then reset all the remainder to the new length.
Sadly I already made the mistake of buying a crappy impact puller.

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voip-1
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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by voip-1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:05 am

rjacobs wrote:+- .2g is about what you can expect from a volume type thrower depending on powder. IMO with H110 you should be getting better throws than that. a lot of guys will give their volume throwers a little "love tap" every time between throws to settle the powder into the orifice which seems to help. Also as you get more rounds through the powder thrower you will get a little build up of carbon which will help things flow a little better.

Even the popular Chargemaster 1500 that weighs every charge is only accurate to .1g due to the limitations of the scale it uses.

Ladder workups are just that, starting at the low end and working your way up to the max via small increments to find your ideal load for your gun. Look up OCW(optimized charge weight) on Google for a description of it. Its probably the "best" load workup method for rifles. Its got a scientific method to determine your "ladders" to find your optimized charge weight to get you into an accuracy node. Usually you will run into 2 or 3 accuracy nodes while doing rifle load workup and its up to you to determine which one you want to run. The other beauty of OCW is that the nodes tend to be ~+-.2g so your volume thrower that throws +-.2 will still keep you in the node. Same with temp swings, in theory, as the temp changes you wont leave the node.
This is super helpful info for me (and probably others) thanks!

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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by voip-1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:08 am

JTank70 wrote:I am also new to the 300BLK and reloading.
Thanks for asking the questions. I have also learned from the answers given.

I just wanted to drop a note about your brass that will not fit in the Sheridan gauge.

I also recently purchased some processed brass, from a popular supplier as well.
About 80 of my 300 would not go all the way into the Sheridan gauge.
I checked them with my caliper and most were also much longer than the rest.
The good ones were around 1.358 or so and the no fits were 1.367 to 1.372.....

I trimmed them down, re-sized them and then all was good. I had four that just would not go even after re-sizing.
At first I was not impressed because it was supposed to be "ready to load" brass.
But, I got over it and considered it experience for a new reloader.......
After all, I made 50 of my own from .223 brass with a dremel and manual trimer. Re-doing the 80 cases was way easier than that.


Good luck with your new reloading activities.

JT
Thanks. I have 250 pieces of pre cut and formed brass and have only loaded 50 or so. I will potentially have to go back and re-process 1/2 of those plus check the other ones. I will test some I have not loaded and report back on the length.

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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by voip-1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:32 am

Sig220 wrote:I am going to post a link to reloading pages over at 24 hour camp fire.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... /4104691/1

This page goes into detail about case prep.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... ost4108162

This page goes into bullet sorting and preparation.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... ost4111907

This page is about finding a starting OAL (overall length)

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... ost4191070

This page is about "powdering" it.

I am not the author of the pages, but they contains reams of information about loading with a emphasis on long range reloading which would be most precise.

The last link goes into ladder tests and the like.

There should be some good information for both new and old reloaders alike!! Not all info will apply to the 300BO and not everyone goes into as much detail as these steps outline, but the information is there and again, we can all learn something from it.

Be Safe and have fun!!
Thank you!

voip-1
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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by voip-1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:54 pm

smustian wrote:Drop the empty brass into the gauge before loading. That should catch the 20% you speak of. Run those through your sizing die and retest with the gauge. If the 20% are already loaded but they fit your chamber, you could just shoot them. Usually the "bulge" is caused by an incomplete stroke during the sizing stage. Could also be caused by the die itself. I say this because some have complained about the Lee sizing die. The slotted Sheridan gauge is cut to max spec measurement. Your chamber could be a little bigger.

+/- .2 grains is probably pretty much standard with powder drop. Be careful if loading at the top end of charges.

Laddering refers to incremental increases in charge weight while leaving OAL the same. IE: 17.1, 17.3, 17.5, etc. Some test in 1/2 grain increments to find the best accuracy and refine between the two.
OK, so the plot thickens!

I tested all of the unloaded brass and all of them fit the slot gauge fine, no problems! However about 5 rounds out of each magazine I had loaded before making this discovery failed to go into the slot gauge properly.

This leaves me with the assumption that something with the loading process is causing the problem but I'm baffled if I can figure out what it might be.

I've included some photos of good vs bad loaded rounds. It looks like on the loaded "bad" round in the photos the C.O.A.L. is slightly longer than the "good" round, but I have other rounds that aren't fitting the gauge that have same O.A.L as the good cartridge.

I did load at the near end of the OAL spec for the bullet I am using.

As you can also see in a couple of the photos, on the bad case, the case diameter, once loaded, is larger at the tail of the case neck which appears to be causing the problem.

What could I be doing when hand loading these in the turret press that is causing this problem?

Thanks!

loaded "bad" round
Image

OAL
Image

case diameter towards top of neck
Image

case diameter towards bottom of neck
Image

in slot gauge
Image

loaded "good" round
Image

loaded "good" round in slot gauge
Image

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dellet
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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by dellet » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:47 pm

The measurement you are showing is in spec at less than .3759. A good idea to double check if it is actually changing size after dropping the powder and seating the bullet. or if that is just a variation in different cases. If the case is bulging after dropping powder and seating the bullet it's possible you have too much powder and you are compressing it, causing the bulge. Not likely in this case.

Measure the neck where the bullet is seated, should be less than .334. Or measure brass should be less than .012. Are all the problem rounds the same, but different headstamps than the others?

Hard to say from pictures, but the bad looks like the bullet is not seated straight, contacting one side and the case is bulged to the opposite side.

This is very easy to do with short flat bullets(experience talking). It helps to have a good chamfer inside the case mouth.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by voip-1 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:54 pm

dellet wrote:The measurement you are showing is in spec at less than .3759. A good idea to double check if it is actually changing size after dropping the powder and seating the bullet. or if that is just a variation in different cases. If the case is bulging after dropping powder and seating the bullet it's possible you have too much powder and you are compressing it, causing the bulge. Not likely in this case.

Measure the neck where the bullet is seated, should be less than .334. Or measure brass should be less than .012. Are all the problem rounds the same, but different headstamps than the others?

Hard to say from pictures, but the bad looks like the bullet is not seated straight, contacting one side and the case is bulged to the opposite side.

This is very easy to do with short flat bullets(experience talking). It helps to have a good chamfer inside the case mouth.
I will check headstamps but I'm pretty sure that they are all LC (could be different years though). There is not enough room in the case mouth for the bullet to sit before seating so I am hand guiding it up into the press as I start the stroke. It sounds like that might be the problem.

What would I need to do short of resizing the brass to get the bullet to sit in the case mouth before I put it into the loading press or maybe I am misunderstanding the problem?

It's also possible that being a newbie I am not stroking the press fully 100% of the time. Press is installed on the 2X4 edge of my work bench but since the press is heavy and a lot of force is applied the press does move slightly during the stroke.

Thanks!

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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by smustian » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:57 pm

Think I have an answer to your problem. The max diameter of the neck with a bullet inserted is .3340. Looks like you have some brass with too thick neck walls. Look at the head stamp on the bad rounds and compare it to the list in the following post and let us know what you find..

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=88599

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dellet
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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by dellet » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:13 pm

voip-1 wrote:
dellet wrote:The measurement you are showing is in spec at less than .3759. A good idea to double check if it is actually changing size after dropping the powder and seating the bullet. or if that is just a variation in different cases. If the case is bulging after dropping powder and seating the bullet it's possible you have too much powder and you are compressing it, causing the bulge. Not likely in this case.

Measure the neck where the bullet is seated, should be less than .334. Or measure brass should be less than .012. Are all the problem rounds the same, but different headstamps than the others?

Hard to say from pictures, but the bad looks like the bullet is not seated straight, contacting one side and the case is bulged to the opposite side.

This is very easy to do with short flat bullets(experience talking). It helps to have a good chamfer inside the case mouth.
I will check headstamps but I'm pretty sure that they are all LC (could be different years though). There is not enough room in the case mouth for the bullet to sit before seating so I am hand guiding it up into the press as I start the stroke. It sounds like that might be the problem.

What would I need to do short of resizing the brass to get the bullet to sit in the case mouth before I put it into the loading press or maybe I am misunderstanding the problem?

It's also possible that being a newbie I am not stroking the press fully 100% of the time. Press is installed on the 2X4 edge of my work bench but since the press is heavy and a lot of force is applied the press does move slightly during the stroke.

Thanks!
I think you understand the problem, unless you keep pinching your fingers in the press when you seat the bullet. :lol:

If you are dropping your powder on the press, there may be a powder funnel to fit your die that will slightly bell the mouth to help seat the bullet.

I do not have any problem by just using a de-burring tool. Basically a reamer that is designed to remove sharp edges and burrs from the case mouth. It will cut an angle that is enough to seat the bullet straight. As long as you are not trying to crank out 30 rounds a minute it works fine.

Another problem you may be having. is that when brass is shipped it is easy for the mouths to be deformed. If you are not running it through the sizing die then you need to some how make sure all the case mouths are round.

Unfortunately, it is something that you will need to acquire a feel for. After a while you will know when you are using more force than normal to seat a bullet.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: Couple of newbie reloading Qs (trying to avoid rookie mistakes)

Post by golfindia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:29 pm

2.204 seems pretty long for that type of bullet.

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