Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

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Ripdog91
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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by Ripdog91 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:51 pm

Should check case thickness. Not all brass is the same. Some is over .003 and might hang up.

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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by tcoz » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:25 pm

I apologize if this is a repeat of other info posted in this thread since I didn't read all seven pages of posts.

There is nothing wrong with Lee dies that will not resize brass to fit in a specific 300 BLK chamber. Lee specifically states on their website FAQs that their sizing die will form brass to mid SAAMI spec and not to minimum SAAMI spec and it's not designed to reform 5.56 brass to 300 BLK. So, it all depends on your chamber. If you have a tight chamber, for example Noveske, then the brass probably won't chamber. If your chamber isn't as tight, then it will. No way to know ahead of time.

The Sheridan gauges are the only case gauges that are made to minimum SAAMI spec which means if cases pass the Sheridan gauge, they've guaranteed to chamber in any rifle but if the cases don't pass the Sheridan, they may still chamber in your rifle if you have a larger than minimum SAAMI spec chamber.
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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by TreeTopFlier » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:06 am

First, welcome to the board!
Ripdog91 wrote:Should check case thickness. Not all brass is the same. Some is over .003 and might hang up.
And just for clarity sake, if you're referring to neck wall thickness, its .013"
Here is a list of go no go brass
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=88599&hilit=brass+list
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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by JBMauser » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am

This is a bogus thread. Lee dies are as capable as any other die to reform fired brass to operate to factory ammo specs which is what they are designed to do. If you are forming brass you have to consider shoulder set back and brass spring back. This is all about your shell holder. You have play in the shell holder and thickness of the shell holder. To properly set up a lee die the shell holder must contact the base of the the die.
turning it further down into the press a bit does nothing but move the contact point. Once the die stops on the shell holder it is done. if you need the shoulder pushed further back for your chamber you have to consider the geometry of the shell holder. If you reduce the surface of the shell holder you can weaken it. You can place a shim under the shell to raise it in the shell holder to remove that dimension and thus force the shell further into the die. No decap pin in this case. OR you grind a bit off the base of the the die because now you are forcing the shoulder back past a normal resize to a forming action and allowing for spring back. I have no problem with Lee dies forming BO and have not had any reason to adjust the die. Lee equipment performs it is as simple as that. If you want to use if for other than it's design purpose it is all on you.
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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by Ripdog91 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:27 am

Sorry got carried away with the 0's.

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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by plant.one » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:05 pm

JBMauser wrote:This is a bogus thread. Lee dies are as capable as any other die to reform fired brass to operate to factory ammo specs which is what they are designed to do. If you are forming brass you have to consider shoulder set back and brass spring back. This is all about your shell holder. You have play in the shell holder and thickness of the shell holder. To properly set up a lee die the shell holder must contact the base of the the die.
turning it further down into the press a bit does nothing but move the contact point. Once the die stops on the shell holder it is done. if you need the shoulder pushed further back for your chamber you have to consider the geometry of the shell holder. If you reduce the surface of the shell holder you can weaken it. You can place a shim under the shell to raise it in the shell holder to remove that dimension and thus force the shell further into the die. No decap pin in this case. OR you grind a bit off the base of the the die because now you are forcing the shoulder back past a normal resize to a forming action and allowing for spring back. I have no problem with Lee dies forming BO and have not had any reason to adjust the die. Lee equipment performs it is as simple as that. If you want to use if for other than it's design purpose it is all on you.
Do not bad mouth a quality tool if it does not do something it was not designed to do. JB

its not about badmouthing the tools, its about what the tools we're discussing were DESIGNED to do. which is RESIZE already fired brass, and not FORM brass from 223/556 brass.

yes there are a few tricks you can do to make the die more likely to successfully FORM brass - like modifying the shell holder, or using an RCBS shell holder, etc - but out of the box, as designed the product is not intended for use as FORMING dies. Lee openly says so about this product, so discussing as such and with as many folks who have had problems with it, its a very valid thread.

sure if some posts are pure 'thread crapping' posts just bashing lee, those dont merit really being a valid part of the discussion, but on its premise the title and intent of the thread are valid in all measures.


i to have great results with lee product as a whole - almost all my die sets are LEE dies. They're a wonderful entry level price point product that can and do produce respectable ammo, when used for their intended purpose. which in the case of 300 blk is a resizing die, and not a forming die.
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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by r.tenorio671 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:05 pm

.....wow, 4 months worth of debate in this thread :shock:

...the problem of case webs not being resized to a smaller dimension were identified in much older threads, along with a plethora of workarounds or other brand name dies that worked "out of the box" for some.

...case web issues was identified many years back when AR's were beginning to be reloaded for, one of the reasons that FL/"SB" dies were "recommended" for "autoloading" platforms. The 300BLK case is the same case and still has the same issue...

...IMHO, for the person just starting in the 300BLK reloading game, the approximate difference of $10 between a LEE Pacesetter die set and the RCBS AR Series die set is minimal considering the aggravation one MIGHT encounter, more so if one intends to convert their own brass. Skip 2 trips to McDonalds for lunch and the $10 difference is covered :mrgreen: BTW, not all "purchased" converted brass is small based sized, I've experienced that a few times from different vendors, it's a PITA to have to resize "new" brass alleged to be RTG.... :roll: Caveat Emptor

If one also reloads .223/556 for an AR platform and funds are an issue, having a "FL/SB" die set for .223/556 can be used to resize the 300BLK case to maximize your dollars. The "extra" steps you go thru during the reloading or forming process are a lot less time consuming and aggravating than having to pull a batch after wasting time at the range or in the field when the rounds failed.

I'm a long time Lee product user, 30+ years and have no issues with their products. I also use the RCBS FL/SB (now called RCBS AR Series) dies since the 80's when I first encountered the oversized case web issue in my AR's and HK91. When I started my 300BLK journey, I was anticipating same issue so when it did crop up, my old .223/556 RCBS die resolved the issue until I could order a set specifically for my 300BLK.

BLUF, when reading thru the forum, look beyond the "fandom" and discern what works and more importantly, for all of the workarounds offered, what was the root cause, just my -$0.02...

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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by stengun » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:00 am

Howdy,

I love Lee Products!

For making 300 Blackout brass I made a jig to hold the .223/5.56 brass that I mount on a HF 6" chop saw. The jig isn't anything fancy, just a piece of 1" flat bar with a piece of 1" key stock welded to it. I drilled a taped hole into the key stock to insert the brass for shortening. With I drilled the taper hole I used a loaded .223 round for a go/no go gauge so now I must resize/deprime my .223 brass BEFORE I shorten them.

Next, after washing the trash out of them I run them through a Lee 300 Blackout sizing die. Next I trim them to lenght ( 1.365" ) with a Lee case trimmer and a B&D cordless drill. Next the cases are properly deburred and ran through the tumbler again.

I've made less than 500 brass so far but this "process" has worked fine without any issues using Lee dies.

HTH

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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by OTShooter » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:55 am

TreeTopFlier wrote:First, welcome to the board!
Ripdog91 wrote:Should check case thickness. Not all brass is the same. Some is over .003 and might hang up.
And just for clarity sake, if you're referring to neck wall thickness, its .013"
Here is a list of go no go brass
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=88599&hilit=brass+list
Just for the sake of clarity, the "go/no go" list is a "guide" at best. If you actually read it carefully, you'll see that there are some headstamps that are on BOTH sides. How can that be? It's because the list is just a list of "this worked for me" and "this didn't work for me" reports. No mention of how the brass was converted, no mention of whether or not the brass was annealed. No mention even of whether the donor brass was new, once fired or "who knows how many times fired." And there's been no attempt to rationalize the thing either - it would take a whole lot of effort to go through all SEVEN pages of it to make it make sense.

The list is not useless, but it's not gospel either. If you see a headstamp on the "bad" list, pay attention when you're forming or loading it. If it's on the "good" list, that doesn't necessarily mean it will work for everyone every time.

I've found that case forming is MUCH easier with annealed brass. On the other side of that idea, if you use a Dillon 1050 with Dillon's trim/size setup to convert in one pass, you may not wind up with brass that's as useful as if you chopped the cases first and then ran 'em through your 1050. Basically, beware of any absolutes in this area.

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Re: Do not buy lee dies to reform 223 5.56 to 300aac brass

Post by mb3 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:55 pm

I have sized about 1500 FC 5.56 cases to 300 blk using Lee dies without any problems. I have tried several different ways to reduce time but have had no issues with my converted cases. I use a standard case holder and always set the die a good 1/2 turn past contact. I have tried reforming with the decaper/ expander both in and out. Seemed to work equally as well either way, just need an extra step without the decap. I have been converting once fired Federal XM193 brass only.

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