208 A-max vs 220g anything

[drooster]

Just thought I would see what yall think about which of these two bullets weights is the best the way to go. The 208g A-max go for about 25 cents a piece if you are lucky and the 220 are maybe 10 cents more - ish. The point is the 220s are a good bit more expensive. I think, but am not sure (and I have not killed anything with the 208s) that the A-max will expand more quickly under these subsonic speeds than the SMK type open tip bullets. Correct me if I am wrong cause I am still pretty new to handloading and guns in general. Furthermore, I dont find any 220g bullets out there that are not open tip or FMJ. But....to keep the 208s subsonic you have to go with such a wimpy load of powder such as 10.8 of A1680. Not much punch to that round and now you have cycling issues. With the 220s, however, you can pack in more powder, more punch and still stay subsonic and be less likely to have cycling issues. If they made an A-max that weighed 220 or thereabouts, that was reasonably priced, it seems to me that that would be the winner hands down, but that not being the case, which is better folks?

[gds]

Just thought I would see what yall think about which of these two bullets weights is the best the way to go. The 208g A-max go for about 25 cents a piece if you are lucky and the 220 are maybe 10 cents more - ish. The point is the 220s are a good bit more expensive. I think, but am not sure (and I have not killed anything with the 208s) that the A-max will expand more quickly under these subsonic speeds than the SMK type open tip bullets. Correct me if I am wrong cause I am still pretty new to handloading and guns in general. Furthermore, I dont find any 220g bullets out there that are not open tip or FMJ. But....to keep the 208s subsonic you have to go with such a wimpy load of powder such as 10.8 of A1680. Not much punch to that round and now you have cycling issues. With the 220s, however, you can pack in more powder, more punch and still stay subsonic and be less likely to have cycling issues. If they made an A-max that weighed 220 or thereabouts, that was reasonably priced, it seems to me that that would be the winner hands down, but that not being the case, which is better folks?

Neither of those rounds will expand at sub velocities. the amax may expand at over 2000 fps base on some info I have read from hornady. the SMKs will not expand at all, not designed to. What these will do is tumble. now the problem comes into how quickly they tumble and will they still be inside the deer when the y tumble.

The 208 gr amax and the 220 smk are pretty equivalent in ft lbs of energy on target. I forget but the 220gr has a little mroe. you are limited by the sound barrier. the amount of powder is irrelevant to this because of the speed limit to keep it subsonic.

208gr works just fine in the AR15 series for function and staying subsonic with the correct powder load.

If you are wanting a subsonic expanding round, then you will pay a lot. but you will get good rounds. Lehigh defense, are some of the best. For subsonic use using a jacketed bullet you need a thinner jacket as well as a wide and deep hollow point. See Outlaw State Bullets.

my hunting round is a 247 gr Cast that I hollow point with 1/8 inch drill bit down to 3/4 inch.

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86301

[1slow01Z71]

Neither will expand at subsonic velocities so go ahead forget that. I shoot 208s for two reasons, theyre cheaper and I shoot them in my 300WM. I see no reason to shoot the 220 smks as the difference in energy is negligible at best and will go right through whatever you shoot anyway since they dont expand. From 50yds an amax went through a 4" mesquite with authority and I doubt I'll try and kill anything much past 100 with subs. It just drops too fast and wind jacks with them too bad.

[1slow01Z71]

Just thought I would see what yall think about which of these two bullets weights is the best the way to go. The 208g A-max go for about 25 cents a piece if you are lucky and the 220 are maybe 10 cents more - ish. The point is the 220s are a good bit more expensive. I think, but am not sure (and I have not killed anything with the 208s) that the A-max will expand more quickly under these subsonic speeds than the SMK type open tip bullets. Correct me if I am wrong cause I am still pretty new to handloading and guns in general. Furthermore, I dont find any 220g bullets out there that are not open tip or FMJ. But....to keep the 208s subsonic you have to go with such a wimpy load of powder such as 10.8 of A1680. Not much punch to that round and now you have cycling issues. With the 220s, however, you can pack in more powder, more punch and still stay subsonic and be less likely to have cycling issues. If they made an A-max that weighed 220 or thereabouts, that was reasonably priced, it seems to me that that would be the winner hands down, but that not being the case, which is better folks?

Neither of those rounds will expand at sub velocities. the amax may expand at over 2000 fps base on some info I have read from hornady. the SMKs will not expand at all, not designed to. What these will do is tumble. now the problem comes into how quickly they tumble and will they still be inside the deer when the y tumble.

The 208 gr amax and the 220 smk are pretty equivalent in ft lbs of energy on target. I forget but the 220gr has a little mroe. you are limited by the sound barrier. the amount of powder is irrelevant to this because of the speed limit to keep it subsonic.

208gr works just fine in the AR15 series for function and staying subsonic with the correct powder load.

If you are wanting a subsonic expanding round, then you will pay a lot. but you will get good rounds. Lehigh defense, are some of the best. For subsonic use using a jacketed bullet you need a thinner jacket as well as a wide and deep hollow point. See Outlaw State Bullets.

my hunting round is a 247 gr Cast that I hollow point with 1/8 inch drill bit down to 3/4 inch.

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86301

The amax will expand down pretty low ~1500 fps which I know for this exercise is irrelevant but they will expand at much lower speeds than 2000. For good info on the amax and terminal ballistics go to the long range hunting forum and they have a thread specifically about the amax and game hunting. Quite a few kills at 1000yds+ with them and they expand. For a 300WM with a decently hot load thats about 1650fps at that distance and a 208 amax.

[gds]

The amax will expand down pretty low ~1500 fps which I know for this exercise is irrelevant but they will expand at much lower speeds than 2000. For good info on the amax and terminal ballistics go to the long range hunting forum and they have a thread specifically about the amax and game hunting. Quite a few kills at 1000yds+ with them and they expand. For a 300WM with a decently hot load thats about 1650fps at that distance and a 208 amax.

I am only basing my info on what I had read on hornadys sight. of course I cannot find that page anymore.

I also know tried some 178gr AMAX in my .308. I forget the exact velocities, but well over 2000 and I did not get any expansion. just the tip broken off. of course this was only in water. But I have read as you pointed out that guys have gotten great expansion out of them.

[gds]

also I did take 2 deer with the 178gr amax subsonic, one neck shot the other double lung and the round clearly tumbled inside and left a great blood trail for the 30 yds he traveled. but this was in a 1 in 10 twist barrel

[certifiable]

I have not hunted with subs but I know there are some here that do successfully.
I believe the key is getting the bullet to tumble as none (except Lehigh & 1 other) are designed to expand.
I have shot well over 1000 each of the 208 BTHP, 208 AMax, 220 SMK and 225 BTHP bullets loaded to sub velocities and have found no difference getting any of them to cycle properly with the "coveted" A1680 powder.
Not trying to be brash or offend anyone but I equate using A1680 to buying a book called "Reloading For Dummies".
Do I use A1680? Yes, but I don't restrict myself to only A1680, many other powders will work.
My go to sub loads are;
208 w/ A1680 for carbine gas
225 w/ RL7 for either carbine or pistol gas
220 SMK w/ W296 for pistol gas

[talonxracer]

The 220SMK wont expand at all, I have recovered a half dozen of them from my favorite Ash tree(current target holder, LOL), and they look pristine other than the rifling. Now don't think that their non expansion precludes them from being a hunting round, the damage they create is from their tumbling and that damage is extensive. Currently there are several of the 220SMK's sticking partially out of the backside of the tree, most arse backwards. This tree/target holder is 100 yards down range.

[1slow01Z71]

I have not hunted with subs but I know there are some here that do successfully.
I believe the key is getting the bullet to tumble as none (except Lehigh & 1 other) are designed to expand.
I have shot well over 1000 each of the 208 BTHP, 208 AMax, 220 SMK and 225 BTHP bullets loaded to sub velocities and have found no difference getting any of them to cycle properly with the "coveted" A1680 powder.
Not trying to be brash or offend anyone but I equate using A1680 to buying a book called "Reloading For Dummies".
Do I use A1680? Yes, but I don't restrict myself to only A1680, many other powders will work.
My go to sub loads are;
208 w/ A1680 for carbine gas
225 w/ RL7 for either carbine or pistol gas
220 SMK w/ W296 for pistol gas

Why use something different if 1680 works great?

[certifiable]

I have not hunted with subs but I know there are some here that do successfully.
I believe the key is getting the bullet to tumble as none (except Lehigh & 1 other) are designed to expand.
I have shot well over 1000 each of the 208 BTHP, 208 AMax, 220 SMK and 225 BTHP bullets loaded to sub velocities and have found no difference getting any of them to cycle properly with the "coveted" A1680 powder.
Not trying to be brash or offend anyone but I equate using A1680 to buying a book called "Reloading For Dummies".
Do I use A1680? Yes, but I don't restrict myself to only A1680, many other powders will work.
My go to sub loads are;
208 w/ A1680 for carbine gas
225 w/ RL7 for either carbine or pistol gas
220 SMK w/ W296 for pistol gas

Why use something different if 1680 works great?

Why limit yourself to one powder that is so elusive?